this post was submitted on 11 Dec 2024
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menby

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A space for masculine folks to talk about living under patriarchy.

Detoxing masculinity since 1990!

You don’t get points for feminism, feminism is expected.

Guidelines:

  1. Questions over blame
  2. Humility over pride
  3. Wisdom over dogma
  4. Actions over image

Rules (expansions on the guidelines):

  1. Mistakes should be learning experiences when possible.
    • Do not attack comrades displaying vulnerability for what they acknowledge are mistakes.
    • If you see good-faith behavior that's toxic, do your best to explain why it's toxic.
    • If you don't have the energy to engage, report and move on.
    • This includes past mistakes. If you've overcome extreme reactionary behavior, we'd love to know how.
    • A widened range of acceptable discussion means a greater need for sensitivity and patience for your comrades.
    • Examples:
      • "This is reactionary. Here's why."
      • "I know that {reality}, but I feel like {toxicity}"
      • "I don't understand why this is reactionary, but it feels like it {spoilered details}"
  2. You are not entitled to the emotional labor of others.
    • Constantly info-dumping and letting us sort through your psyche is not healthy for any of us.
    • If you feel a criticism of you is unfair, do not lash out.
    • If you can't engage self-critically, delete your post.
    • If you don't know how to phrase why it's unfair, say so.
  3. No singular masculine ideal.
    • This includes promoting gender-neutral traits like "courage" or "integrity" as "manly".
    • Suggestions for an individual to replace a toxic ideal is fine.
    • Don't reinforce the idea the fulfillment requires masculinity.
    • This also includes tendency struggle-sessions.
  4. No lifestyle content.
    • Post the picture of your new grill in !food (feminine people like grills too smh my head).
    • Post the picture of the fish you caught in !sports (feminine people like fish too smdh my damn head).
    • At best, stuff like this is off-topic. At worst, it's reinforcing genders norms..
    • If you're not trying to be seen as masculine for your lifestyle content, it's irrelevant to this comm. If you are trying to be seen as masculine, let's have a discussion about why these things are seen as masculine.

Resources:

*The Will to Change: Men, Masculinity, and Love by Bell Hooks

founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS
 

(CW: chapters 4 and 5 contain explicit discussions of sexual assault)

Hello comrades, it's time for our third discussion thread for The Will to Change, covering Chapters 4 (Stopping Male Violence) and 5 (Male Sexual Being). Thanks to everyone who participated the last few weeks, I’m looking forward to hearing everyone’s thoughts again. And if you’re just joining the book club this week, welcome!

I'll be sharing my full thoughts later as there's quite a lot of unpack in these chapters.

In Ch.4 hooks delves into how patriarchal repression of men's emotional worlds most often manifests as violence and rage, especially against women and children, and how patriarchy conditions both young boys and young girls to perpetuate the cycle. Ch.5 explores how patriarchal attitudes extend to the bedroom and twist our popular conceptions of sexuality, sexual fulfillment, and physical and emotional satisfaction.

If you haven't read the book yet but would like to, its available free on the Internet Archive in text form, as well as an audiobook on Youtube with content warnings at the start of each chapter, courtesy of the Anarchist Audio Library, and as an audiobook on our very own TankieTube! (note: the YT version is missing the Preface but the Tankietube version has it)

As always let me know if you'd like to be added to the ping list!

Our next discussion will be on Chapters 6 (Work: What's Love Got To Do With It?) and 7 (Feminist Manhood), beginning on 12/18.

edit: the previous post didn't have the proper links to the pdf book and audiobooks, sorry for that

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[–] dumples@midwest.social 11 points 1 week ago (2 children)

I am going to talk about these two chapters separately because they are so different from each other. (Although as chapter 4 shows sex and violence go together). I think the real heart of this chapter comes from two different passage. The first is about self mutilation of their own emotions (Emphasis mine):

The first act of violence that patriarchy demands of males is not violence toward women. Instead patriarchy demands of all males that they engage in acts of psychic self-mutilation, that they kill off the emotional parts of themselves. If an individual is not successful in emotionally crippling himself, he can count on patriarchal men to enact rituals of power that will assault his self-esteem.

I find this passage rings very true from my own experience. I have never been violent in my adulthood but the killing of the emotional sense was definitely part of my life. I have found recently that I don't think I know what emotions feel like and never really knew that emotions were felt in the self. I thought they were just something people applied to situations. Like this is suppose to be sad so I feel sad. I am not surprised about this because I spent a large part of my teenage years reading pulpy Tom Clancy / war novels. It makes sense with the constant bombardment of the glory of war in my teenage head.

The second part that is the rising of violence due to the failure of the patriarchy to fulfilling its end of the bargain which ends in rage and violence. (Emphasis mine):

Male violence in general has intensified not because feminist gains offer women greater freedom but rather because men who endorse patriarchy discovered along the way that the patriarchal promise of power and dominion is not easy to fulfill, and in those rare cases where it is fulfilled, men find themselves emotionally bereft. The patriarchal manhood that was supposed to satisfy does not. And by the time this awareness emerges, most patriarchal men are isolated and alienated; they cannot go back and reclaim a past happiness or joy, nor can they go forward. To go forward they would need to repudiate the patriarchal thinking that their identity has been based on. Rage is the easy way back to a realm of feeling. It can serve as the perfect cover, masking feelings of fear and failure.>

This passage feels more true every year especially this week with the emotional reactions towards the killing of United HealthCare CEO. The general sentiment is that the current system is failing and people are angry. From the incels who believe their own hyper-patriarchy so much so that they think they deserve sex. The everyday men who are working their corporate job and falling behind the goal to provide financial stability. We were promised success in the traditional channels if we killed our own emotions and support this system but that doesn't work. We know that the only people who are benefitting are the top of the hierarchy (the billionaire class). Those of us who see it know the real enemy isn't women but those who are benefiting from our rage against them.

[–] AcidSmiley@hexbear.net 12 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I have never been violent in my adulthood but the killing of the emotional sense was definitely part of my life. I have found recently that I don't think I know what emotions feel like and never really knew that emotions were felt in the self. I thought they were just something people applied to situations. Like this is suppose to be sad so I feel sad.

A good friend of mine struggles a lot with alexithymia (being unable to understand and identify one's emotions) due to trauma and autism, she's been working with various emotion wheels as a ressource and it has been surprisingly efficient. You can easily find various versions of this when you just google "emotions wheel" or "feelings wheel", and when you regularly apply that, you slowly train yourself to connect to your emotions again.

[–] dumples@midwest.social 12 points 1 week ago

My therapist recommended that to me as well. I have been using How We Feel which is an app that asks you multiple times a day to check in with your emotion. It was created as part of a book I read called Permission to Feel which I also recommend. The app is easier to use. But the whole thesis is that people can't label emotions and this is suppose to help with that. I have felt that it has helped over the last few months as I use it daily.

I also was recommended The Atlas of the Heart which shows related emotion together as well as being a beautiful book. Its helpful to talk about the difference from guilt and shame or stressed vs overwhelmed because they are related. I recommend it as well.

I am using the tools and getting better at everything but I feel like I should have known this when I was much younger. I am in my 30's and I feel like I am a 5 year old when it comes to identify emotions. I am only good at positive emotions and I use it to cover up or hide anything negative. But I am getting better at a good pace

[–] Barabas@hexbear.net 11 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I have never been violent in my adulthood but the killing of the emotional sense was definitely part of my life. I have found recently that I don't think I know what emotions feel like and never really knew that emotions were felt in the self. I thought they were just something people applied to situations. Like this is suppose to be sad so I feel sad.

It is strange to be performing an emotion. When I get into crisis and high stress it entirely shuts down and I start performing what I'm supposed to do like an automaton. Feels very surreal, especially when you see people grieving around you and feel like a fraud and a monster for not really feeling.

It makes me useful in emergencies as I tend to be solution focused, but I don't think it is enough to make up for it.

[–] dumples@midwest.social 9 points 1 week ago

When I panic or stress I definitely get robotic and solution focused. It works really well for getting things done but not in a healthy way. I had some very sad things happen recently and felt the same way you do. I felt like I should be sad but I wasn't feeling anything. In times like that I tend to only feel it once I am by myself or sometimes never. I often feel like a robot especially after lots of stress. I just shut down inside