this post was submitted on 11 Dec 2024
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menby
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A space for masculine folks to talk about living under patriarchy.
Detoxing masculinity since 1990!
You don’t get points for feminism, feminism is expected.
Guidelines:
- Questions over blame
- Humility over pride
- Wisdom over dogma
- Actions over image
Rules (expansions on the guidelines):
- Mistakes should be learning experiences when possible.
- Do not attack comrades displaying vulnerability for what they acknowledge are mistakes.
- If you see good-faith behavior that's toxic, do your best to explain why it's toxic.
- If you don't have the energy to engage, report and move on.
- This includes past mistakes. If you've overcome extreme reactionary behavior, we'd love to know how.
- A widened range of acceptable discussion means a greater need for sensitivity and patience for your comrades.
- Examples:
- "This is reactionary. Here's why."
- "I know that {reality}, but I feel like {toxicity}"
- "I don't understand why this is reactionary, but it feels like it {spoilered details}"
- You are not entitled to the emotional labor of others.
- Constantly info-dumping and letting us sort through your psyche is not healthy for any of us.
- If you feel a criticism of you is unfair, do not lash out.
- If you can't engage self-critically, delete your post.
- If you don't know how to phrase why it's unfair, say so.
- No singular masculine ideal.
- This includes promoting gender-neutral traits like "courage" or "integrity" as "manly".
- Suggestions for an individual to replace a toxic ideal is fine.
- Don't reinforce the idea the fulfillment requires masculinity.
- This also includes tendency struggle-sessions.
- No lifestyle content.
- Post the picture of your new grill in !food (feminine people like grills too smh my head).
- Post the picture of the fish you caught in !sports (feminine people like fish too smdh my damn head).
- At best, stuff like this is off-topic. At worst, it's reinforcing genders norms..
- If you're not trying to be seen as masculine for your lifestyle content, it's irrelevant to this comm. If you are trying to be seen as masculine, let's have a discussion about why these things are seen as masculine.
Resources:
*The Will to Change: Men, Masculinity, and Love by Bell Hooks
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This was an interesting couple of chapters, but maybe less personally affecting than some of the previous ones. The home I was raised in wasn't violent or particularly patriarchal. My mother was in her own non-radical way a convinced feminist and tried her damnedest to raise me right. My father was maybe not the highest standard of male/female equality (he never really learned to cook more than a few basic dishes for instance), but he is a very gentle, artistic and somewhat introverted man, who preferred to let my mother take the lead most of the time. This is stuff I took for granted at the time, but I'm more appreciative of it in retrospect. For me, the patriarchal stuff was mostly enforced by peers and the larger culture, which hooks talked about in one of the previous chapters.
"Men of feeling often find themselves isolated from other men. This fear of isolation often acts as the mechanism to prevent males from becoming more emotionally aware."
I feel this one a lot. I feel a lot of guys have a few safe topics to relate to each other on (sports, cars, kids, if you're a bit older, etc.) and you're just kind of left out in the cold otherwise. This by the way is I will always be a sportsball hater. Every time someone asks me I saw the game last night or whatever, it feels like they're already making a lot of assumptions about me that I don't want.
The stuff on male sexuality, idk if I can really relate to much of that either. Definitely, I got the messaging as an adolescent that not having sex made you a loser and wanted to experience it, but I wanted intimacy with someone just as much. When I read this the last time, I still identified as a man, albeit a GNC man, and now I don't, and I'm thinking about where my experiences overlap with what hooks talks about and where they don't.
"Sexual pleasure is rarely the goal in a sexual encounter, something far more important than mere pleasure is on the line, our sense of ourselves as men. Men’s sense of sexual scarcity and an almost compulsive need for sex to confirm manhood feed each other, creating a self-perpetuating cycle of sexual deprivation and despair. And it makes men furious at women for doing what women are taught to do in our society: saying no."
She nailed the core of inceldom right here (not that this is exclusive to incels).
This is the best part of Chapter 5 for me. The rest I didn't agree with as much. The messages for adolescence about not having sex made you a loser was useful as well. I think this chapter misses the mark more than previous ones. Or at least for me it did. But sexuality is very personal