(CW: chapters 4 and 5 contain explicit discussions of sexual assault)
Hello comrades, it's time for our third discussion thread for The Will to Change, covering Chapters 4 (Stopping Male Violence) and 5 (Male Sexual Being). Thanks to everyone who participated the last few weeks, I’m looking forward to hearing everyone’s thoughts again. And if you’re just joining the book club this week, welcome!
I'll be sharing my full thoughts later as there's quite a lot of unpack in these chapters.
In Ch.4 hooks delves into how patriarchal repression of men's emotional worlds most often manifests as violence and rage, especially against women and children, and how patriarchy conditions both young boys and young girls to perpetuate the cycle. Ch.5 explores how patriarchal attitudes extend to the bedroom and twist our popular conceptions of sexuality, sexual fulfillment, and physical and emotional satisfaction.
If you haven't read the book yet but would like to, its available free on the Internet Archive in text form, as well as an audiobook on Youtube with content warnings at the start of each chapter, courtesy of the Anarchist Audio Library, and as an audiobook on our very own TankieTube! (note: the YT version is missing the Preface but the Tankietube version has it)
As always let me know if you'd like to be added to the ping list!
Our next discussion will be on Chapters 6 (Work: What's Love Got To Do With It?) and 7 (Feminist Manhood), beginning on 12/18.
edit: the previous post didn't have the proper links to the pdf book and audiobooks, sorry for that
I am still catching up on reading this, so the following is more related to the first 2 chapters than 4/5.
One of the things I found hard about reflecting on the first chapter was being sympathetic to the manly men in my own life that have been assholes. I was bullied and teased for "being a wimp" in school (in other words, doing effeminate things like reading and being thin), and as an adult a female relative of mine is dealing with a nasty divorce from a real piece of work manly man who's deeply betrayed her. Intellectually I appreciate that a lot of the manly man behaviour that's negatively affected me and the people I love is a direct outgrowth of the patriarchy and patriarchal values as described by hooks. I think hooks is very insightful and does a good job describing the societal pressures on men and how that warps men's mental health, values and behaviour.
That said, while I find her very readable and even accessible for reflecting on my own thoughts and behaviour, I find it hard to read when I am thinking about these other assholes in my current and past life. I was amab, born and raised as a boy, am a cishet man - I came up with all the same social pressures and patriarchy, my parents weren't early feminists or anything, I went to church. And yet I didn't bully other kids in school and didn't manipulate and betray my wife. I think the reason that I'm struggling a bit with internalizing hooks' writing is that I view these acts of abuse, negativity, manipulation as a choice. Societal pressure notwithstanding, no one held a gun to the head of these shit bags and forced them to call me homosexual slurs, they made a choice based on what they thought would make them funny or popular. My relative's ex didn't get forced to be a narcissistic shit head that's walking out on their kids, he chose to gas light her and have an affair.
Perhaps these are my patriarchal, non-marxist brainworms talking, but while I'm willing to read and learn from this book, I am not willing to extend the same level of sympathy as hooks to the patriarchal, misogynist fucks who have wronged me and mine. I think part of what makes it difficult is that hooks is so clearly right - the patriarchy does fuck people up and does warp values. I just struggle with going from that clear and obvious systemic pressure to any form of "it's not their fault". I appreciate the irony that the dominant emotion that I, a man, have on this subject is anger over magnanimity or forgiveness.
I might have to reread those two chapters to reply more directly because I distinctly dont remember hooks absolving men of those sorts of actions really. explanation, yes, but certainly not excuse
Oh yeah, this is my baggage, not hers.
I don't think bell hooks is trying to build sympathy for assholes or even justify people's behavior. Like everything in life our actions are driven by our culture and societal upbringing but we did them, made a choice to do them and therefore must own them. The presence of everyone here and every decent man that exists shows the upbringing is not destiny. The title of the book is "The Will to Change" so we must be willing to change. I see two purposes of this book: first to convince men that they should change because of the hardships the patriarchy has done to them; second to explain for those men who are trying to change what pitfalls they should look out for and why it might be difficult. It doesn't justify the actions of men who are unwilling to change.
I don't think she's trying to justify people's behavior at all, but I do think that sympathy for men is an important message of the book. She accurately describes societal systems that shape men, forces that act on us from outside. This one asshole I'm thinking of is so clearly emotionally broken in the ways that hooks describes. I don't think he has the "will to change", but nevertheless, honest reflection on hooks' writing should lead to some degree of sympathy. That is what I'm finding hard. I don't like feeling sympathy for him.
She is for sure trying to get sympathy for Men not for that specific man. You can be sympathetic for Men and not a specific asshole. There are assholes in all groups and who don't always deserve your sympathy.