this post was submitted on 11 Dec 2024
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menby
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A space for masculine folks to talk about living under patriarchy.
Detoxing masculinity since 1990!
You don’t get points for feminism, feminism is expected.
Guidelines:
- Questions over blame
- Humility over pride
- Wisdom over dogma
- Actions over image
Rules (expansions on the guidelines):
- Mistakes should be learning experiences when possible.
- Do not attack comrades displaying vulnerability for what they acknowledge are mistakes.
- If you see good-faith behavior that's toxic, do your best to explain why it's toxic.
- If you don't have the energy to engage, report and move on.
- This includes past mistakes. If you've overcome extreme reactionary behavior, we'd love to know how.
- A widened range of acceptable discussion means a greater need for sensitivity and patience for your comrades.
- Examples:
- "This is reactionary. Here's why."
- "I know that {reality}, but I feel like {toxicity}"
- "I don't understand why this is reactionary, but it feels like it {spoilered details}"
- You are not entitled to the emotional labor of others.
- Constantly info-dumping and letting us sort through your psyche is not healthy for any of us.
- If you feel a criticism of you is unfair, do not lash out.
- If you can't engage self-critically, delete your post.
- If you don't know how to phrase why it's unfair, say so.
- No singular masculine ideal.
- This includes promoting gender-neutral traits like "courage" or "integrity" as "manly".
- Suggestions for an individual to replace a toxic ideal is fine.
- Don't reinforce the idea the fulfillment requires masculinity.
- This also includes tendency struggle-sessions.
- No lifestyle content.
- Post the picture of your new grill in !food (feminine people like grills too smh my head).
- Post the picture of the fish you caught in !sports (feminine people like fish too smdh my damn head).
- At best, stuff like this is off-topic. At worst, it's reinforcing genders norms..
- If you're not trying to be seen as masculine for your lifestyle content, it's irrelevant to this comm. If you are trying to be seen as masculine, let's have a discussion about why these things are seen as masculine.
Resources:
*The Will to Change: Men, Masculinity, and Love by Bell Hooks
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I don't think bell hooks is trying to build sympathy for assholes or even justify people's behavior. Like everything in life our actions are driven by our culture and societal upbringing but we did them, made a choice to do them and therefore must own them. The presence of everyone here and every decent man that exists shows the upbringing is not destiny. The title of the book is "The Will to Change" so we must be willing to change. I see two purposes of this book: first to convince men that they should change because of the hardships the patriarchy has done to them; second to explain for those men who are trying to change what pitfalls they should look out for and why it might be difficult. It doesn't justify the actions of men who are unwilling to change.
I don't think she's trying to justify people's behavior at all, but I do think that sympathy for men is an important message of the book. She accurately describes societal systems that shape men, forces that act on us from outside. This one asshole I'm thinking of is so clearly emotionally broken in the ways that hooks describes. I don't think he has the "will to change", but nevertheless, honest reflection on hooks' writing should lead to some degree of sympathy. That is what I'm finding hard. I don't like feeling sympathy for him.
She is for sure trying to get sympathy for Men not for that specific man. You can be sympathetic for Men and not a specific asshole. There are assholes in all groups and who don't always deserve your sympathy.