this post was submitted on 11 Dec 2024
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menby

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A space for masculine folks to talk about living under patriarchy.

Detoxing masculinity since 1990!

You don’t get points for feminism, feminism is expected.

Guidelines:

  1. Questions over blame
  2. Humility over pride
  3. Wisdom over dogma
  4. Actions over image

Rules (expansions on the guidelines):

  1. Mistakes should be learning experiences when possible.
    • Do not attack comrades displaying vulnerability for what they acknowledge are mistakes.
    • If you see good-faith behavior that's toxic, do your best to explain why it's toxic.
    • If you don't have the energy to engage, report and move on.
    • This includes past mistakes. If you've overcome extreme reactionary behavior, we'd love to know how.
    • A widened range of acceptable discussion means a greater need for sensitivity and patience for your comrades.
    • Examples:
      • "This is reactionary. Here's why."
      • "I know that {reality}, but I feel like {toxicity}"
      • "I don't understand why this is reactionary, but it feels like it {spoilered details}"
  2. You are not entitled to the emotional labor of others.
    • Constantly info-dumping and letting us sort through your psyche is not healthy for any of us.
    • If you feel a criticism of you is unfair, do not lash out.
    • If you can't engage self-critically, delete your post.
    • If you don't know how to phrase why it's unfair, say so.
  3. No singular masculine ideal.
    • This includes promoting gender-neutral traits like "courage" or "integrity" as "manly".
    • Suggestions for an individual to replace a toxic ideal is fine.
    • Don't reinforce the idea the fulfillment requires masculinity.
    • This also includes tendency struggle-sessions.
  4. No lifestyle content.
    • Post the picture of your new grill in !food (feminine people like grills too smh my head).
    • Post the picture of the fish you caught in !sports (feminine people like fish too smdh my damn head).
    • At best, stuff like this is off-topic. At worst, it's reinforcing genders norms..
    • If you're not trying to be seen as masculine for your lifestyle content, it's irrelevant to this comm. If you are trying to be seen as masculine, let's have a discussion about why these things are seen as masculine.

Resources:

*The Will to Change: Men, Masculinity, and Love by Bell Hooks

founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS
 

(CW: chapters 4 and 5 contain explicit discussions of sexual assault)

Hello comrades, it's time for our third discussion thread for The Will to Change, covering Chapters 4 (Stopping Male Violence) and 5 (Male Sexual Being). Thanks to everyone who participated the last few weeks, I’m looking forward to hearing everyone’s thoughts again. And if you’re just joining the book club this week, welcome!

I'll be sharing my full thoughts later as there's quite a lot of unpack in these chapters.

In Ch.4 hooks delves into how patriarchal repression of men's emotional worlds most often manifests as violence and rage, especially against women and children, and how patriarchy conditions both young boys and young girls to perpetuate the cycle. Ch.5 explores how patriarchal attitudes extend to the bedroom and twist our popular conceptions of sexuality, sexual fulfillment, and physical and emotional satisfaction.

If you haven't read the book yet but would like to, its available free on the Internet Archive in text form, as well as an audiobook on Youtube with content warnings at the start of each chapter, courtesy of the Anarchist Audio Library, and as an audiobook on our very own TankieTube! (note: the YT version is missing the Preface but the Tankietube version has it)

As always let me know if you'd like to be added to the ping list!

Our next discussion will be on Chapters 6 (Work: What's Love Got To Do With It?) and 7 (Feminist Manhood), beginning on 12/18.

edit: the previous post didn't have the proper links to the pdf book and audiobooks, sorry for that

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[–] AcidSmiley@hexbear.net 2 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

I'm largely in the same boat as you here. I can't say much about porn, as i simply do not care about the subject one way or another, but it was once more very apparent to me how expressly cis, heterosexual, mono, allo and vanilla hooks' perspective is. There's no queering of any kind in it. In earlier chapters that was interesting, sometimes even necessary to fill in the blanks of other feminist theory, but it kinda rubs me the wrong way when straight people make sweeping statements about gay sexuality.

Like you, i was often reminded of sex-negative seperatist radfems that view all penetrative sex and all kink as patriarchal acts of violence. She doesn't go all in on that in the way that Ur-TERFs like Sheila Jeffreys do, but it feels kinda problematic that she foregos her usual distancing from that crowd as soon as queerness enters the picture. That part just hasn't aged well.

That does not mean i disagree with her general assumptions about patriarchal sexuality, i'm fully on board with that and yes, i do extend that to some gay men. I've had too many moments on the dancefloor were my friends and me played "spot the aggressively horny bro before he starts hitting on us" to not have a personal vendetta with patriarchal male sexuality. The thing is, as a queer poly kinkster, alternatives to patriarchal sexuality are something that i live daily, and the kind of emotionally open, non-opressive, non-prescriptive sexuality that she demands is something that already exists. And you don't have to be a lesbian to experience it, but you do have to at least talk to people who are part of communities that practice a reflected, open, consent-centric way of talking about sex and relationships.

[–] dumples@midwest.social 2 points 4 days ago

I’ve had too many moments on the dancefloor were my friends and me played “spot the aggressively horny bro before he starts hitting on us” to not have a personal vendetta with patriarchal male sexuality.

We've all seen this guy and hate this guy. They are usually the same guy who calls all women "bitches" and claims that women don't like sex. No dude you are the problem and its guys like you that are stopping women / everyone from being / feeling safe enough to express themselves. As you mentioned there are alternatives to patriarchal sexuality out there already where women can feel safe enough to be their true selves.

And you don’t have to be a lesbian to experience it, but you do have to at least talk to people who are part of communities that practice a reflected, open, consent-centric way of talking about sex and relationships.

The great news for anyone who is interested is that the sex positive consent-centric community is out there in all kinky, queer spaces and they have been learning and sharing together for decades. (This is because the patriarchy have been calling them all perverts and deviants for decades so they have had to build a community outside of it for a long while) The advice you will hear there is almost identical to what most sex positive therapists would give because they are sharing the best evidence based practices. Hot and Unbothered, The New Topping Book and The New Bottoming Book are all good suggestions if anyone is interested.

If anyone wants some queer / feminist / women centric porn I would recommend Erika Lust, Crashpad Series and ForPlay Films. Dipsea is your best source for audio erotica.