Comradeship // Freechat

Vegans stealing chickens and letting them in the wild where they cannot survive because they were born in captivity? Well, there are utopian animal rights activists – some eco-anarchists maybe – who happen to be vegan, who also do this kind of stuff. Veganism itself isn't the problem here, but what it's attached to. Please don't roll the blame on vegans in general, we're a diverse bunch.

The very moment a vegan – or even just a plant-based person – outs themself they get asked questions which they've encountered way too often such as what you've presented here and pushed to being "normal" because humans "need" animal products. Literal forcing "you can take the meat out from the soup" and not offering reasonable plant-based food happens too especially to those who aren't in charge of the contents of their plate. I don't expect you to directly relate or understand the frustration it creates, but perhaps you can relate via some other connection? Surely vegans can be pushing back and forceful too, and many are like this especially in online spaces. I wouldn't say you've been forced here to become a vegan like vegans are pressured to become "normal", but rather your justifications for consuming animal products are questioned. My dear IRL comrade isn't a vegan and I've never pushed him to become one. However, I'll never let him get away with a half-baked piss poor justification, and that is a comradely thing to do. This is how I see this situation too.

In my long gone days of being a newbie vegetarian, I remember ridiculing some vegan for stating that "milk is murder". What a fool, right? Years later before I became a vegan I realised the fool had been me for not understanding dairy industry. There is no cows' milk without pregnancy and the milk is produced for calves. This means that cows must be raped to produce milk and their calf taken away from them. Most calves are killed for meat shortly after their birth. So even if you don't directly kill for milk, the calf here is a "by product" which cannot be kept around since it'd need that milk which is now taken from it for human consumption. This is how dairy industry operates and it surely requires killing calves and eventually their mothers when their bodies give up. Humans are not baby cows and milk must be processed before it's safe for human consumption. The whole idea that milk somehow is necessary for humans is dairy industry propaganda. For example in Finland there literally are propaganda posters in schools, so from a very young age people are brainwashed to believe that milk is essential for humans. And surely one kind of milk is essential: human mother's milk for human babies.

Then there is obviously the dairy farmer who isn't paid enough by the industry and relies on state subsidies. Prices are artificially kept low and dairy products keep their dominant position. Dairy industry not only exploits the cows, but also the farmer.

I don't think food chain could be changed by an insignificant population of vegans. We've gone from simple medieval farming of animals to industrialisation and commodification under capitalism. The very same capitalism that is fuelling climate change where animal agriculture plays a big role. What actually would be forcing the change is economy and climate change. This doesn't mean everyone will be vegan, but perhaps vast majority will eventually be once animal agriculture is phased out.

One thing that bothers me with topics about veganism is how they mainly circle around food and moral questions related to it. It'd be refreshing to see discussions that go beyond this who eats what and is it right or wrong.