this post was submitted on 07 Oct 2023
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Isn't it always funny that even the most ardent left-unity people only exclusively expect the anarchists to compromise?
Means cannot be disentangled from ends.
Yes, if you see yourself as an anarcho-natoist, we're gonna need you to compromise on some of your principles. The people of Russia, even if you don't like them, don't deserve to be pillaged again by NATO.
Who said anything about NATO? Do you just have an imaginary anarchist in your head to be mad about? Do you think an anarchist is someone who watches a lot of Vaush?
So you do support the people of Russia in their ongoing struggle against decades of NATO aggression?
I support the people of Russia and Ukraine in their struggles with war, starvation, loss of home and general suffering caused by the Russian and Ukranian/NATO states, which I do not support because I don't support any state because I am an anarchist.
If you're not supporting Russia's opposition to NATO, then you're supporting the people of Russia being destroyed by NATO again. That's some pretty shitty anarchism. Standard anarcho-natoism to pull out some ultra-left nonsense about how only a spontaneous, unorganized resistance to NATO is acceptable.
It's NATO that had designs on collapsing Russia, not the other way around. It's not Russia's fault that NATO convinced Ukraine (probably through blackmailing Zelensky with threats to prosecute financial crimes) to be the current battleground.
I don't think asking leftists to not punch left is asking for much of a compromise
Asking anarchists to stop criticising statists and being against statism and vanguardism is big enough of a compromise that you're basically asking them to stop being anarchists.
But funnily enough, no left unity person, no matter how vehement, ever asks MLs to stop believing in or expressing their beliefs of anything. Because MLs think they are "the default leftism", and anarchism is a divergency. So then, left unity would be bringing the divergency back to line.
But even accepting that belief, that's not unity. That's assimilation. Unity would be finding a place in between the two. Which is impossible because means cannot be disentangled from ends. The "anti-sectarianism" of Hexbear is just as you show it is, "MLs, but anarchists can hang out if they shut up". They want anarchists to be useful idiots to them.
i'm no ML but anarchists should read the jakarta method.
anarchists should be able to see that cuba, china, vietnam, laos, and north korea are far preferable to american hegemony despite all their flaws, and that contextually an anarchist uprising in cuba would immediately cause the island to fall to imperialists. You don't have to like states to understand that you kinda need one when the dominant mode of geopolitics is relations between states.
i'm here for anarchism when the bigger threat of capitalism is gone or if anarchists can get something going in the imperial core but i don't see any examples of successful movement building comparable to the BPP.
You are asking me to accept that a state is necessary - i.e you are asking me to stop being an anarchist. Once again, the only one that has to compromise in this "left unity" is me, and the compromise is so big I have to completely stop being myself. On your end though, there is nothing. This is exactly what I'm pointing out. You're just saying it in nicer words.
Thank God you're contained to the internet (like most of us). You would be getting people killed in real life.
Funnily enough it is the statists that most often kill the anti-statists "in real life" but okay, you do you buddy.
LMAO fucking LARPer complaining about "Statists murder anarchists!" do you have any other state department talking points you'd like to walk us through?
This is only the second time in my life I've engaged with someone who used the word "statist". The first guy was a libertarian, and the second is you, an anarcho-natoist. I guess the implication is that a state is inherently bad. What the state is used for is inconsequential. Funnily enough, in the real world we evaluate what's goid and bad based on material consequences, not baseless ideals pulled out of your ass. This has the same rigor as liberalism.
This is the usual tactic of attacking your use of specific words instead of the essence of what you're actually saying. Use inspect element and replace "statist" with the word you'd like me to use instead. I'm not gonna do that for you.
Anarchism isn't baseless or pulled out of anyone's ass. You can disagree with it, but to claim literally no material analysis of the state and/or its consequences, or the relations and dynamics of power and hierarchy exists, is just plain ignorance, no different from a conservative feeling the authority to look down on marxists when they have only skimmed the communist manifesto. If you are interested I can link you to some things, if you are not, just own up to it and say so.
your desperate desire to be "oppressed" online is embarrassing.
My brother in Christ I have loudly posted pretty much the entirety of Kropotkins Mutual Aid and no one has ever told me to shut up.
99% of the people who use the term "tankie" are NOT anarchists
Principled and theoretical anarchists who organize get my respect, Social liberals with delusions of spontaneity get my scorn, just like any patsoc liberal who pretends to be a "communist"
You don't get to define what is a "true anarchist" and what isn't, much less exclusively based off of if they use a word you don't like or not. I don't care about your respect, I am merely pointing out a dynamic that constantly happens in this community and those similar to it.
I mean I can literally define what an anarchist is because there's a historical and theoretical structure to anarchism and if it isn't followed you're simply not an anarchist
Anarchism isn't an ethnic group, it's a economic sociopolitical philosophy someone follows and 99% of people who use terms like "tankie" do not follow it
Fair enough, that's true.
Regardless, saying "tankie" indicates nothing of your understanding of anarchist philosophy. You have to actually look at what the person is saying. Some definitely are simply larping (like vaushites and such), some have been committed anarchists for decades. I'm not sure if you're so enthusiastic about left unity you want to believe "anti-tankie" anarchists are "just not the true real and good ones", or if you just want to discredit anyone that uses the word, but regardless it's just a blind blanket statement.
It's not a "blind blanket statement" committed anarchists engaged in on the ground organizing are simply not using internet brained terms like "tankie"
it's usage is always a signal that its user is either a delusional liberal or an online sectarian not remotely interested in real world politics
The proof is in the fact plenty of ML groups successfully organize alongside street level anarchist groups all over the US, which isn't exactly a country kind to socialists of any kind
Using terms like tankie is a clear cut signal that person is terminally online and as a result couldn't define anarchism to save their lives
That's just what you want to believe.
You don't have to stop being hostile to MLism to work with MLs. If there are common short term goals, it's most often pragmatic to, especially in countries where there isn't an active leftist threat at all like the US. That does not mean the anarchists are just perfectly fine being buddies with the MLs, nor that when the collaboration is over they won't criticise and call them out again.
Once again, that's just what you believe. That's nothing but a preconception. You're telling yourself that so you can give yourself a free pass to blindly disregard anyone who says a word, and not have to listen to what they have to say. I've actually organized in real life both with pluralist orgs and with directly anti-marxist groups, full of people who despise all of you. Whether the real life anarchists I've done shit with say "authoritarian" "statist" or "tankie" or just "ML" has no bearing on their understanding of philosophy. Some are very new and don't get things yet, some have been anarchists for longer than I have been alive, and have actually gone to jail for their anarchism.
You can disagree with and even condemn the actions of anti-marxist anarchist organizations just fine, but to try to say that they somehow aren't "the TRUE ones" is just delusion.
Again, for the second time, it's not about what I believe, anarchism has its own history with its own principles and theoretical foundation embedded in either a historically utopian or marxian conception of capitalism, even if the tactics and politics of rhetoric differ from capital M-Marxism, so if a so-called anarchist advances politics that preserves capitalism, they are not by any definition "anarchist" and that does in fact describe 99% of the people who use an online slur like "tankie"
So do you want to keep going in circles or do you just want to admit you have no idea what anarchism is
lmao sure you have liberal
This is what I'm talking about. You don't get to say what "trve anarchism" is because you don't actually know it. Anarchism has nothing to do with Marxism, not even ancoms. They're entirely separate philosophies that view the world in different ways, both use material analysis and both stand against capitalism, but that does not mean they share a common goal, or have common ancestry. Have you actually read any anarchist theory? Or just On Authority and Anarchism or Socialism?
This once again proves you have no idea what you're talking about. Anti-marxist anarchists are treated as actual terrorists by the state and capitalism. They're among the most militant anti-capitalist groups on earth. The italian FAI bombs prisons while the italian ML party writes about needing critical support for ISIS in a 1998 looking ass website. Not to bring up the FARJ and the anarchists in Iran literally risking their lives as we speak. But you, from the comfort of your chair, disregard them to delude yourself into thinking what makes you comfortable.
But sure, carry on after talking to me, thinking you stand for left unity, and don't worry your pretty little head about all of these groups and people that have done more against capitalism than you or I ever have. They're not real, I assure you. They are surely just LARPing. You and the people you agree with are the one true and only based socialism bringers.
So not only do you have no clue about the history of anarchism and how it developed, but you clearly don't know a thing about Marxism or socialism, or frankly I'm starting to suspect any -ism, you do realize you actually have to read history to be politically literate instead of working off nonsensical intuition based vibe politics
Lets see how swallow your understanding really is, provide a simple definition of marxism and socialism
Yeah no, anti-marxist groups have accomplished nothing but to solidify the control capitalist institutions have where ever they supplant a unified socialist movement, if your idea of "anarchism" is martyrdom and broken adventurism, then thanks for proving my point and revealing how swallow your understanding of history and radical politics is
So now you're asserting anarchists in Iran of all places are railing against the "taNkiEs" on the regular, lmao you dumbass
I have nothing to prove to you, and it's clear you aren't listening and just repeating all the memorized talking points ingrained inside. Believe whatever you want.
as long as you insist on lifting your politics from memes and online posts, you're always gonna remain confused
Intuition is nothing without knowledge and theory to structure it