598
The Government Makes It Harder for the Formerly Incarcerated to Be Good Citizens
(www.thedailybeast.com)
this post was submitted on 29 Aug 2023
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As an attorney that worked for Legal Aid in a past life, I offer the observation that people in poverty have an entirely different experience with the legal system than folks who are not desperately poor. A traffic ticket turns into an inescapable pile of court debt, your license gets suspended because of the debt, but you have to drive to get to work. You get caught driving on a suspended license then you miss your first court date because the notice went to an old address that you were evicted from, then you are late to your second court date because your boss wouldn't let you out the door. Then your kid gets sick and you miss another date, but your phone is dead and you can't call the court, and the judge throws your ass in jail for contempt. You miss work, you lose your job. You are absolutely panicking, and possibly incredibly cynical and angry to boot. Once you've got the system looking at you, the attention offers numerous ways to fuck you thirty times to Tuesday, in ways that reach beyond the direct action of the system.
I am not justfying crime, but I have seen enough variations of the aforementioned scenario to understand that for some, this translates into an extremely nihilistic view of a very small world where the morality of certain behavior stops being evaluated.
Again, not excusing responsibility, but just sharing what I've encountered - I've also witnessed people that seem like perfectly well adjusted folks who suddenly commit shockingly criminal acts, and seeing this transformation occur, it is clear that something just isn't right in their head. Don't know if it's nature or nuture, but they're subtly broken and there's probably not a damn thing that can fix them. These folks are far fewer in number than folks driven by worldview shaped by desperation.
These are all just excuses that could either A. Be prevented by not committing the initial crime or B. Making damn sure you do what you are supposed to after. If you are poor, all the more reason to. Get a second job to pay for the shit, borrow money, ask a friend, sell a game. Gtfo of here with all these excuses. You observed lazy people who do the wrong shit. Period.
You libertarians are so silly. Poverty is almost impossible to escape. No amount of bootstrap-pulling will do it.
Lmao I'm a libertarian because I expect people to not commit crimes and pay their fines....? Holy fuck you people are morons.
No, it's the whole 'just don't be poor' part of what you're saying.
Yes, take steps to not be poor. I did it and anyone else can too. The rest is just excuses.
"I didn't die from cancer, so no one would die from cancer if they just took the right steps and stopped making excuses."
This isn't about me, nor is that any of your business.
Only on lemmy do people doubt you when you say you were poor. Like "yeah you were poor, but not poor enough"
Maybe if you ever defined 'poor' in terms of income, which you didn't. All I know is that 'poor' to you doesn't include homeless people.
I've been poor. Maybe you are the one who doesn't know what you are talking about then.
Poverty is a disease. It's a myth that anyone can escape it through hard work. You did, if you really were poor and I would love your definition of poor here, because you got lucky.
Were you living in a shack with a tin roof with no water or electricity? Were you living in a tent and eating out of dumpsters? I doubt it.
I'm speaking specifically in the US and we are talking about being poor, not homeless. That is a little different. No one in this conversation is sitting on a pc or phone or laptop from a fucking tent in the Phillipines. Quit moving goalposts to fit your narrative.
Sorry... homeless people aren't poor? What?
Yes, but that is not what we are discussing. Homelessness is not a situation where you can just go out and get a job or several other things. I'm talking about poor people who have a residence and running water for a shower. If you have those things, getting a job or several is significantly easier. Homelessness is in a category of its own when it comes to difficulty getting back on your feet. I acknowledge that.
Next you are going to say "what about mentally ill, learning disabilities... etc." Not what we are discussing.
sometimes life deals you a shitty hand. other times you screw up without meaning to. and the moment you do, the whole "don't be poor in the first place" rhetoric doesn't matter because you're trapped by the system.
I never said don't be poor in the first place. You are just making shit up. You can not get trapped by the system by being a law abiding citizen.
you can take steps not to be poor but then get screwed over anyways. be it bad luck or an innocent mistake.
Poverty is impossible to escape?!?! You are such a shitty enabler. Wow man. You know how you escape poverty? Staying in school, trying and working. More than 1 job sometimes when it requires it. What a load of BS.
Never had a parking ticket spiral eh?
$85 + $50 dollar waiver fee if you pay and just say you're guilty. OOOOR
$85 fee if you go to court and lose.
Only $95 in the bank.
Well shit, $50 bucks lets you pay rent, so you take the time. But you have to get exacty $10 of gas, you get to the courtroom, do your best and lose. You gotta pay $85 dollars, and so you do -- except the bank fucked you when you went to got gas, they haven't processes that yet, and the courtroom requires a mandatory $2.95 "convenience fee" so they don't have to take a check... So you pay, and the bank processes your payments dutifully, smallest to largest, but now you're in the hole for $105.
Rent is still coming next week, and you're lucky it's only $300 cause you share a 3 bedroom and sleep on the couch.
To make the $300 dollars you gotta work 2 jobs, because Wallmart makes sure you don't get the full 35 hours each week to qualify for benefits, and McDonalds only calls you to pick up the teenagers shifts on Fridays.
But wait, you're -105 in the bank, so you gotta go call up a bunch of people you know and bug everyone at McDonalds to see if you can cover their shifts. Finally you manage to scrape together 55 hours to pay your rent... but you get dinged on your mobile bill in the middle of that week, and you're out another 40 dollars. You can't cancel the mobile phone since it's your only phone, and hell entertainment, you can't afford a TV or a Netflix plan, that shit's for the rich. You can't even afford to eat where you work...
Finally you get home, after working 7 days of 8 hour shifts you managed to scrape together (4 at wallymart and 3 at mcdonalds) and your bank account is empty, you don't have any money for food, and your snap benefits keep getting denied because you live in a red state...
So you watch youtube shorts, and tiktok doom scroll and try and forget you're hungry....
(I hope my landlord will let me give them 260 until I can cover the rest...)
Waaahhhhhhhhh
You could start off with a normal day tomorrow, and someone completely unrelated to you could crash in to you and leave you permanently disabled.
You could have a stroke and lose most of your cognitive abilities.
You can't be that happy with your current set up if you're "waaaaa"-ing random people on lemmy. Tell me, what part of that behaviour says "happy and fulfilled person"?
Why would anyone take life advice from an outwardly unhappy person?
You must save a lot of money on dental bills because you have your head shoved so far up your own ass you can see the back of your teeth. Get fucked.
He seems like he might be a bit of a classist dummy
I save a lot of money because I have dental insurance. Lol. Fuckface.
You really don't know how expensive it is to be poor, do you? There's fees on top of fees on top of fees if you can't pay on time or the whole amount at once. The idea of "just don't be poor" doesn't really work. It's like saying if you want to be a billionaire, why aren't you? Just do it.
I was poor. I'm not poor anymore. I went to college, 9/11 happened, went to the military immediately after college, paid off my college via the military, got into IT having never went to college for the field, killed myself to learn, worked 60+ hours for 8 years to excel in the field, now I'm comfortable. I'm working on being a millionaire first ;)
"It's not a problem for me, so therefore it can't be a problem for anyone"
You... do realize how fucking stupid that sort of "logic" is right? Other people are allowed to have different experiences.
It's not stupid, it's proof that people can do it. You all just want "poor me" instead of taking accountablility and responsibility for your own situations. ANYONE who doesn't have a physical deformity or extremely low IQ can join the military and pick a job that doesn't involve getting your face blown off to get out of poverty. ANYONE. You guys are full of excuses.
Nothing you said contradicts what I said, and is correct.
Now imagine the people that don't have their education paid for by the military.
"went to college" Lmao GTFO
Also it was a tech school not a university. Pretty affordable and fast track to a job.
Yep grants work and my single mother cosigned for the rest. Hard to imagine when you are lazy and can't do anything for yourself, I know. Got half paid when I joined the military the rest I paid after tho you could go to the miliary first to get there as well , if you weren't all soft as baby shit, that is.
Tell us more about how you don't know the first fucking thing about what it's like to be poor.
He said in another comment that he was poor, and then he went to college... dude doesn't have a clue.
Im poor and went to college. Most of the people in college seem to be poor. I know very poor kids who got full scholarships. I know people deeply in debt from college.
I'm just saying one does not preclude the other.
There's a vast difference between living on a budget and being so poor that loans aren't enough, you didn't finish high school because the family had to eat, and scholarships are laughable for most people.
Eating ramen to afford your on campus housing is not being poor.
Right. These people don't know about loans. Or grants, or paying as you go. I was poor the while way thru college. One night I ate uncooked stuffing for dinner. Lol. It sucked. I lived off of the dollar store and 1 dollar bag of egg noodles, 1 dollar can of spaghetti sauce and butter and salt. Or ghetto pizza (saltines, 1 dab of spaghetti sauce per, sprinkle cheese onto, microwave)
Poverty is not a character flaw
You're ridiculous.