this post was submitted on 30 Aug 2023
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“Whether you like it, or not, history is on our side. We will bury you,” he said quoting former USSR leader Nikita Khrushchev.

Russian politician Dmitry Medvedev said on Tuesday Russia could have a right to go to war with NATO.

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[–] FuglyDuck@lemmy.world 140 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I wonder… does medvedev have enough wits left to understand that if Russia has that right… then everyone … has that right?

They’re finding Ukraine difficult enough. Sure we’re sharing some toys (a lot of toys)… but they don’t have carriers or attack subs or missile destroyers…

Threatening nato is not a sane decision to make. We might just take them at their word.

[–] SupraMario@lemmy.world 88 points 1 year ago (4 children)

The toys we're sharing are our older toys from the 80s and 90s even. Its not even the more deadly stuff we have...and they're fighting against a force that's getting a few weeks training on these toys and sent out into the field. If russia truly wants a 72 hour war...all it would need to do is attack NATO.

[–] Ertebolle@kbin.social 31 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah, Ukraine is excited about maybe getting some F-16s and how much that could help with the air war and meanwhile a couple of F-22s could take down a whole squadron of them.

[–] NewNewAccount@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Is the F-22 that much more capable?

What about the F-35? Did its issues ever get resolved?

[–] Ertebolle@kbin.social 15 points 1 year ago

Yes. And yes. Article on the F-35.

[–] flying_monkies@kbin.social 14 points 1 year ago

Is the F-22 that much more capable?

Yes, it is.

The most successful jet fighter of the modern era is the F15 with a combat record of 104-0.

In combat against F15s, the F22 is 41-1.

[–] Candelestine@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago (2 children)

72? Pretty generous. I'm pretty sure we have more HARM missiles than they do S400 SAM batteries.

[–] FuglyDuck@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago (3 children)

It’s not the war, it’s the keeping.

In any case, we’d probably bog down around the same time China and everyone else on that side got involved. I don’t think it would be as clean or as quick. But, yeah. We could definitely screw them pretty harshly without ever landing troops

[–] Candelestine@lemmy.world 25 points 1 year ago (1 children)

China and Russia have no military alliance, Xi is just taking advantage of the fantastic business opportunity that opened up for him for cheap Russian imports. If Chinese troops became militarily involved in Russian territory, it would probably be to acquire their claims over eastern Siberia, dating back to the Qing Dynasty. Otherwise he's just be supporting a state that competes with him for the dominant regional position.

The Tsar took that land from them, back in the day though. If you look at their current claimed territories, they never forgot. Maybe if Russia agreed to become a subject state of China, then they'd help militarily, but they're certainly not friends or allies.

Russia does have actual allies, but not many. And China isn't one of them.

[–] vzq@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

So what you’re saying is we could Jalta Russia at the Urals with the Chinese and set up Cold War 2 on a really big scale?

[–] InverseParallax@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

That's what everyone wants, we get west russia, China gets parts of Siberia with resources, and with it we buy peace for another 50 years while everyone consolidates.

[–] snooggums@kbin.social 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

We don't need to occupy Russia to stop them from continuing a war that they start. We can just destroy their equipment and manufacturing locations so their armed forces surrender.

[–] FuglyDuck@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I was just gonna say, destroy the vodka and cigarettes.

[–] snooggums@kbin.social 6 points 1 year ago

That falls under equipment!

[–] bluGill@kbin.social 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

There isn't anyone really on that side . China and NATO have differences, but China doesn't have anything to gain from helping Russia, and nthey lose a lot is NATO loses. They will sit out. Similar with India, they will stay out . Iran or a few other small counties might consider joining, but I doubt it as most are smart enough to know that is suicide.

[–] Hank@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Idk, China might see the spread of resources as a good opportunity to try an invasion of Taiwan.

[–] bluGill@kbin.social 3 points 1 year ago

Maybe, Xi seems just sane enough not to try, but who knows. China and Russia can't really win against NATO though they make things harder. India likely hates China enough to join NATO as well.

Of course we are talking nuclear armed countries so everyone loses is possible.

[–] InverseParallax@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

Putin made his move because Xi sounded like he was going to go at the same time.

Xi was closing on HK and planned to switch immediately to Taiwan, even started the domestic pivot, then his navy told him they needed at least 5 years (honestly its more like 15, they are just starting carrier flight ops on the Liaoning and their newer ones aren't shaken down yet).

Putin had made his preparations, Xi hinted he might go anyway once the west was distracted.

If daddy z hadn't stayed in kyiv history would look really bad right now.

[–] InverseParallax@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

This sounds like a job for science!

[–] vzq@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 1 year ago

There’s also the option that it’s going to be a 30-ish minute war. 50-ish if the other side manages to get their counter value force airborne.

[–] T156@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Or the big guns. If they start attacking the nuclear powers, things are going to get very spicy very quickly.

[–] wintermute_oregon@lemm.ee 19 points 1 year ago (2 children)

America is not giving Ukraine the most advanced weapons and that is stopping Russia.

Imagine if America used their pre advanced weapons.

It’s posturing. Russia wants to look tough. They’re a paper tiger.

[–] uphillbothways@kbin.social 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Total posturing. A few hundred of these would end the war overnight: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGM-158_JASSM

These aren't even classified. Poland and Finland have them, today.

Ukraine is keeping Russia in check with cardboard launched grenades. It's pretty amazing, honestly; both how innovative Ukraine has been under duress with almost nothing, and how bad Russia has performed in this mess they've dumped themselves in.

A few too many toes over NATO lines would decapitate the Kremlin, probably before anything could be done in response.

[–] wintermute_oregon@lemm.ee 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I have been highly impressed with the Ukrainian spirit and ingenuity.

I have also been surprised at what a cluster fuck Russia has been on the battlefield. I expected them to perform better than they did. It shows how much they have declined from being a super power.

The only issue I have is Russia has nukes and Putin is dumb enough to use them.

[–] uphillbothways@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

That stealth missle I linked, there's a CHAMP payload designed for it that fries any electronics...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter-electronics_High_Power_Microwave_Advanced_Missile_Project

Launchers, guidance systems, communications, all of it. Should be able to be handled, if any of it even works anymore.

[–] Omniraptor@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I just don't understand why the americans can't decide their stance while sitting on these wonderful advanced weapons. Either give Ukraine enough equipment to win or tell them to get lost and give up territory in exchange for peace. One risks escalation with Russia or if things go too well collapse of russia, the other risks discrediting the rules based international order (lmao).

But the status quo with delayed/half assed aid shipments is costing thousands of Ukrainian (and Russian, but who cares lol) soldiers' lives for pretty dam questionable outcomes.

[–] agent_flounder@lemmy.one 2 points 1 year ago

And at full scale. This is definitely typical Russian posturing, ie total bullshit that everyone knows is bullshit but they say it anyway.

[–] vlad76@lemmy.sdf.org 3 points 1 year ago

He is a puppet. It's hard to think with Putins hand so far up your ass.