this post was submitted on 23 Jan 2025
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I would be curious to see the numbers but I don't think the pro Palestine protest voters cost the Democrats the election. It definitely didn't help, but the Dems shat the bed in way more ways than just the Palestine situation.
If they did, then all the neolibs were wrong that voters don't care about Palestine...
Which logically means the party needs to move to the left at least enough so that genocide isn't acceptable.
Instead, they act like fucking trump supporters and brag that a genocide is still happening.
There's zero logic or empathy with them, which is why some people call them "blue maga".
They're the ones that didn't stop watching CNN even after the new buyers blatantly and publicly said their goal was to become the fox news if he left.
You are aware that people can hold two beliefs at once, right?
So, not voting and encouraging others not to vote because "blue MAGA" is actively helping the people who are currently enacting genocide+.
See, this is where communication always breaks down...
If a progressive is politically active right now it's safe to assume that they held their nose and voted D.
Which I've done just like I've always done.
But we tried to warn people trump was going to win if Dems kept moving right...
Dems kept moving right, and we were right. Then when we try to talk about how to win next time and how to gain back all the votes moving right cost us...
We get people trying to say we're the problem because we want to fucking win.
I got a big post history, plenty of opportunities for you to find a single comment where I've ever advocated for not voting for the least evil candidate in the general.
But if you got a little faith you can take my word it's not in here.
That "inside" is doing increasingly heavy lifting these days. Seems to me that increasingly the only successful change comes from working outside the system.
Pretty much. They didn't offer anything their constituents wanted except for escape from DJT.
Unfortunately "We aren't Donald Trump" wasn't a winning strategy two of the three times they tried it.
I wonder what two terrible choices we are gonna have in 2028. Watch it be like fuckin Nancy Pelosi with an exoskeleton holding her up vs Dan Crenshaw who will have replaced his eye patch with a gun by then.
And, remember, it almost didn't even work the second time. Biden was the only candidate running for the nomination poised to lose to Trump and he was forced on us, seemingly as punishment for us demanding healthcare. They were willing to throw 2020 and would have lost had the unpredictable and extraordinary circumstances of Covid-19 not occurred, along with Trump's absolutely bungled response. Covid-19 was the sole event that propelled Biden to the white house. And then he was exactly as ineffective and terrible as all leftists predicted and we got Trump back because of it.
Well, whoever it is, it'll be them running against Trump, because he's already hinted at running for a third term, and he doesn't give a shit if things he does are illegal. And again, whoever it is the Dems pick, they'll be such shitheads that they'll lose the election against Trump again, for the third time. There is absolutely no chance whatsoever they learn their lesson in the next four years, because democrats are mentally incapable of even considering they could ever do anything wrong.
I question even that: Did they really? Where did the party articulate a cohesive plan (or hell, even just an enthusiastic promise) to counter the rise of oligarchy?
They promised an escape from him stylistically, but the majority of citizens who aren't political junkies weren't sick of it, because they weren't exposed to it, because they don't pay much attention to political news. What did they promise that the non-informed voter would notice in they're day-to-day life?
They promised that their oligarchs would be nicer to us. Which, to be fair, is probably true.
Pro-Palestine protest votes didn't cost the Dems the election, but that a single group was not the deciding factor in a contest does not absolve them of responsibility. IE single-issue pro-Israel voters probably were not the reason for Trump's victory, but they still deserve a portion of the blame in voting for Trump.
And many of these selfsame pro-Palestine protest vote types are continuing their dumbass games even as Trump greenlights fascism both at home and abroad - like everyone fucking told them he would.
The dimbass games are posts like this instead of arguing for civil disruption and actions beyond elections. The protesters entire point was the election won't stop the genocide either way and further action is needed. Trying to bait them into an argument about an election that's already fucking over serves nothing. Unless you don't care about the issue in the first place and just want to be divisive about it.
What actions do you suggest?
Any direct action and organizing, frankly. From mutual aid and disruptive protests to boycott, sabotage, and strike(which would take years to organize).
Except they didnt vote for trump and it's disgusting to pretend otherwise
Id say anyone with half a brain, paid attention and was an informed voter knew exactly this is what we were in for - but it's clear most Americans are not informed because of the huge number of people who didn't participate (for whatever reasons)
Highly engaged voters voted overwhelmingly for Kamala. Not because they liked her, but because they knew the alternative was dog shit. This is not an ideal situation.
Well many folks stayed home, and there's no number for that (by intention...staying home is staying home) so it would be hard to quantify.
But apathy in the face of a trump second term is worth discussing, given what was common knowledge about him by then
I think the 2024 election cycle failure falls almost exclusively on the shoulders of the Democrats.
Yeah Trump and his bullshit obviously played a part in where we ended up, but I genuinely believe that it more so came down to how the Democrats handled things in the years leading up to and during the election. I know people want to shift blame and point fingers. You could even make the argument that I'm doing that right now, but the data says otherwise.
It's not like Trump is some generally beloved figure that was already super popular. No he's highly controversial. Many old school Republicans and conservatives despise the guy.
So how does someone that nobody on the left likes and significant chunks on the right also aren't a fan of end up in the office again?
At some point the democratic party need to actually reflect on where they went wrong instead of just pointing fingers and trying to shift blame.
At the end of the day it's the job of the party to earn the votes of the people. They clearly didn't earn enough votes.
Blue lost ground to red in every single state. That type of thing doesn't just happen outta nowhere.
I acknowledge that the Dems MUST change. That's super true.
But based on real historical information about trump, plus his clear intentions for this term, I would have elected an incontinent Chihuahua over trump. At least the Chihuahua would have just shit on the floor of the oval office rather than trashing minority/immigrant rights, climate/science progress, and health research and vaccine implementation all in the first week.
So if there's criticism of dems, which is valid, there's a seeming lack of acknowledgement of the risks trump poses, which are in great excess to anything DEM status quo
True. People keep saying there was nothing different from the Harris campaign that made her different from Biden, but when you compare the status quo, even the version of the status quo that Biden's biggest critics were inventing, it would have still been preferable to re-electing the guy who tried to literally steal the election last time. We could have only been so lucky to have the status quo.
We never needed to discuss Biden accidentally declaring the entire country female.
Or raping people.
Or being a felon.
Dems have ALWAYS been held to a higher standard. They have to be flawless, while Republicans literally get to be lawless.
It's absurd and is a damning condemnation of the intelligence of the average American. If Dems don't do exactly as we want with halos over their heads, we just throw our hands up in the air and go with our direct abusers instead. It's pathetic. It's so childish.
Completely agree.
It's like the al franken thing. What he did in that joking photo was 100% wrong. But was it requiring he be expelled? Further, an active, effective blue legislator was lost for something conservatives would never have done. In some cases that's a damn good thing.
So, on the one hand, punishment and criticism was required, but the standard is so sky high that dems just lose to republicans.
Please be clear, I'm not condoning his behavior or suggesting nothing should have happened, but I think the action shouldn't have been running him out of town without question.
The inescapable conclusion is that, despite their rhetoric, the Democratic Party did not actually see Trump as a risk to the status quo -- at least not the status quo they actually care about (their donors' plutocratic gravy train), as opposed to the status quo they claim to care about (egalitarianism/civil rights).
In other words, "the Dems MUST change" is a huge understatement. It also has zero chance of happening -- other than doubling down on the "we must court the mythological Enlightened Centrist and move right" change for the worse -- under the current party leadership.
Yo can do some demographic analysis on it and that points to: white suburban men didn't shou up to vote.
Here's a video discussing the data