this post was submitted on 31 Aug 2023
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[–] GregoryTheGreat@programming.dev 81 points 1 year ago (36 children)

15 billion to private companies to retool and whatever. But then they sell us what they make. None of that goes back to the tax payers.

If you work for someone else in this country you are a joke it seems.

[–] LifeInMultipleChoice@lemmy.ml 22 points 1 year ago (1 children)

While I agree with your sentiment, ~2/3rds of it according to the article isn't being given to them but being available in loans. So the article should say $5.5 given away, and $10 billion made avaliable to pay back.

[–] zephyreks@programming.dev 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Loans are costs too. It's tying up capital that could be used elsewhere

[–] RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's more like investment, especially if it saves jobs. It can be a win-win. Companies have it easier time switching to EV manufacturing, which helps those companies and the environment. Manufacturing jobs are saved, both giving a living to a lot of people and helping communities and saving on benefit payments.

Could of course backfire or go to shit but investments like this from states seem like a very wise move imo.

[–] DragonTypeWyvern@literature.cafe 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Take loan

Spend it on stock buybacks

Buy a senator or 50

Profit

[–] RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz 2 points 1 year ago

I wouldn't exactly be surprised if that happens but I'm not pessimistic enough to think it will hah. I'd imagine plenty of them will actually use the money for EV transition since that really is the direction things are going anyway.

[–] surewhynotlem@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

It’s tying up capital that could be used elsewhere

I'm not sure that's the case when you're the government and can and do print money. Not every rule of finance applies to the entity that gives credibility to the currency in the first place. This is also why the concept of governmental debt is much less meaningful than the concept of individual debt.

[–] zephyreks@programming.dev 5 points 1 year ago

The government is limited in monetary policy by inflation.

Of course, the Petrodollar doesn't really have this problem, but it ends up exporting inflation around the world.

[–] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

And yet when it comes time to talk about student loans suddenly that the government is broke.

[–] Cryophilia@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Stopping climate change benefits everyone, including the taxpayers.

[–] jandar_fett@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

This isn't going to put a dent in climate change. It just isn't. Wake me up when we change our stance on Nuclear since that is the only thing that will bolster renewable energy, which is a stop gap.

Furthermore, if the US government actually cared about fighting climate change they would invest in public transportation across the country, making those EV, since they A. Go shorter distances and B. Can carry more people, and they would also tax the shit out of the fossil fuel industry and manufacturing sector for their wonton pollution. It's called internalizing the externalities and it needed to happen 10 years ago. We're so fucked.

[–] Cryophilia@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

It just isn’t.

OH SHIT, SOMEONE CALL THE SCIENTISTS, THIS DUDE ON THE INTERNET HAS PROVED ALL OF YOU WRONG

renewable energy, which is a stop gap

Shill detected.

[–] zephyreks@programming.dev 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Stopping climate change by...

Removing fossil fuels from the grid? Reducing methane leakage in natural gas transmission? Developing domestic nuclear energy?

Maybe reducing car-dependency to make more efficient use of land and reduce the excessive amounts of taxpayer money being dumped to subsidize suburban development? Reducing inefficient flights between close cities (LAX-SFO, BOS-JFK-DCA)? Building more efficient buildings?

How about taking advantage of the already insanely efficient supply chains in China that allow for the development of sub-10k EVs? Helping those companies launch in the US and bring their expertise with them to accelerate the EV transition like China has?

Nah, let's just give some more money to a few big EV manufacturers, I'm sure that'll fix everything.

[–] Cryophilia@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

More than one thing can happen at the same time.

I'm sorry for shattering your world-view like this.

[–] zephyreks@programming.dev 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You realize how much money is going towards EV subsidies? They're extremely inefficient uses of money.

[–] Cryophilia@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Not nearly enough. We need to be subsidizing them to the level we subsidize oil.

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[–] Ghyste@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 year ago

We pay at least twice. Isn't that how it's supposed to be?

(/S)

[–] Cheers@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 year ago

"oh it's expensive to make electric vehicles so we have to upsell them at 50k+, even though we get government support"

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