this post was submitted on 10 Feb 2025
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Summary

Donald Trump stated that Palestinians displaced by Israel’s military actions would not have a right to return to Gaza under his plan.

Instead, he proposed resettling them in Egypt and Jordan, despite both nations rejecting the idea.

Trump suggested creating permanent refugee communities funded by the U.S., calling Gaza a "real estate development for the future."

His proposal has drawn condemnation from Arab nations and legal experts, with the UN warning it could constitute ethnic cleansing and violate international law.

Israel’s far-right settlers welcomed the plan.

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[–] ptz@dubvee.org 88 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (9 children)

"But if the Dems ran a better candidate...."

"But Harris didn't even stop in Dearborn, so it's her fault not ours"

"Sure, everything Trump says is a lie, but at least he stopped here to lie to our faces. It's the dem's fault."

"One of Trump's first acts last time was a Muslim ban, but I can't be arsed to remember that far back"

"I had to vote for this otherwise the dems wouldn't learn anything"

/s

[–] cm0002@lemmy.world 29 points 23 hours ago (33 children)

"we just had to teach the DNC a lesson at the polls during that specific election!!!"

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[–] Xanza@lemm.ee 15 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

But if the Dems ran a better candidate…

This is completely valid criticism. Stop pretending it's not. The DNC is in the habit of specifically going out of their way to choose unpopular pundits, and that's not voters fault.

Voting for Trump, or not voting is their fault...

[–] ptz@dubvee.org 6 points 23 hours ago (4 children)

You clearly have no idea how US elections work at that level. The single candidate with the most votes wins. "Not Trump" was not a candidate.

If Trump gets 49% of the vote, Harris 48%, and "other" gets 3%, that's not counted as 51% against Trump and he loses. That's Trump winning with 49% of the vote.

Anyone who didn't vote (or didn't vote for the only candidate likely to defeat Trump) is responsible for his win.

[–] Xanza@lemm.ee 14 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

Anyone who didn’t vote (or didn’t vote for the only candidate likely to defeat Trump) is responsible for his win.

Two things can be true at once. Voters not voting is bad, and it's their fault. The DNC being incapable of finding pundits people want to vote for is also bad, and is also their fault. Pointing one out, has nothing to do with the other and both of these factors led to the election of Donald Trump not once, but TWICE.

Pointing out the DNC's responsibility to find electable candidates doesn't elevate the voters responsibility. But if the DNC were capable of finding pundits voters wanted to vote for no issue would exist. You wouldn't have people refusing to vote, or voting for Trump out of some fucked up sense of "haha, I'm gonna stick it to you!"

Pretending like this issue is solely at the fault of the voters is so fucking disingenuous, disgusting and partyist its insane.

[–] ptz@dubvee.org -1 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 21 hours ago) (1 children)

The DNC could have run an iguana wearing an offensive trucker hat, and we still should have voted for the iguana when Trump was the alternative or stood a chance of winning again.

It's up to the voters to make smart choices, and some of them made the stupid choice.

[–] Xanza@lemm.ee 6 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago) (1 children)

The DNC could have run an iguana wearing an offensive trucker hat, and we still should have voted for the iguana when Trump was the alternative or stood a chance of winning again.

You don't have to convince me of this. I completely agree. I've said only that the DNC has a responsibility to provide something better than an Iguana and for the past three election cycles, that's what we've got and people are pissed. But every time you try to have meaningful discourse about how the DNC is only supplying Iguana people treat you like you're some kind of turncoat who voted for Trump. And that's just bullshit.

We need to be mad at non-voters, people who "lashed out" and voted for Trump, and people who let themselves be swept away by the lies of a grifter who we did nothing but warn them about. But we also need to be mad at the DNC... It's not entirely the voters fault and fuck anyone who says it is.

[–] Schmoo@slrpnk.net 3 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

We need to be mad at non-voters, people who "lashed out" and voted for Trump, and people who let themselves be swept away by the lies of a grifter who we did nothing but warn them about. But we also need to be mad at the DNC

Please also try to funnel that anger into meaningful action. Staying mad at non-voters is understandable but also entirely unhelpful. Staying mad at the DNC however is both understandable and rational, and has the potential to drive change if you allow yourself to channel it into something productive.

[–] Xanza@lemm.ee 1 points 55 minutes ago

Staying mad at the DNC however is both understandable and rational, and has the potential to drive change if you allow yourself to channel it into something productive.

So much fucking this. The DNC has to learn from past mistakes or this shit is going to keep happening, and unless people are mad at them, they won't even think to change.

[–] WoodScientist@sh.itjust.works 6 points 19 hours ago

YOU do not seem to know how elections work beyond a single cycle. You view each election as singular isolated event, and you have zero perspective of the grander game that's played between cycles.

What exactly do you think would happen if 100% of Dem voters always "voted blue no matter who?" If every Dem vote is already locked in from day one, what incentive does the party have to do anything to actually represent them? This is why the Dems worked so hard to court Republicans to vote for Harris. They figured that the Dem base was so scared of Trump that their votes were already locked in.

If you want a party to actually represent your beliefs, there have to be some people on your side willing to walk away if the party drifts too far out of line. If no Democratic voters are ever willing to abandon a Democrat for being too conservative, then the Dem candidates will drift further and further right each cycle.

Yes, there's the idea of democracy being on the line, but when is democracy NOT going to be on the line? And truthfully, the Democratic leaders proved that they were not reliable stewards of Democracy. The party that nominated Garland had zero ability to argue that they would defend democracy. Just look at how limp-wristed the Democrats in Congress have been in responding to Trump's lawlessness. These people are not capable of defending democracy. Trump should have been thrown in Gitmo on day one of the Biden administration. Instead Biden nominated a Republican to be his attorney general, and the rest is history.

[–] Keeponstalin@lemmy.world 5 points 22 hours ago

You clearly have no idea how US elections work at that level. The single candidate with the most votes wins.

Which is exactly why in order to win an election, a campaign needs to offer concessions to voters to earn as many votes as possible.

Something the Democratic Party's Campaign decisively chose not to do, and in fact do the opposite.

Instead of trying to secure hundreds of thousands to millions of constituents by supporting a permanent ceasefire and weapons embargo, a policy vastly supported by the Democrats own voter base (in addition to the majority of also independent and Republican voters), they instead alienated those voters by more than just ignoring their valid concerns.

They chose to arrest thousands of student protestors, gave billions of dollars to a genocide at the tax payers expense consistently for 15 months, actively suppressed the voices and representation of the main victims of the genocide, and campaigned with Liz Cheney (who was actively involved with the Bush-Cheney foreign policy in the middle east and enthusiastically pro ethnic cleansing of Palestinians). They chose to do all that instead of represent the view of the majority of their constituents and abide by domestic/international law.

And that was just one of the major issues, along with immigration and the economy, that tanked the approval of the Democratic Party. If the Democratic Party wanted to actually win against Trump they would have done everything to gain as many votes as possible. They chose not to. They threw the election and let an unpopular fascist win.

[–] brendansimms@lemmy.world 2 points 22 hours ago

most electoral college votes. Less people voted for trump than did for Hillary in 2016, and he still won.

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