this post was submitted on 04 Apr 2025
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But seriously this will suck for people living in Syria. But hey good thing we got rid of Assad amirite?

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[–] WoodScientist@hexbear.net 47 points 1 day ago (2 children)

That's the problem with founding a state based on genocide and ethnic cleansing. When you've convinced yourself that you're literally doing the will of God, when are you actually "done" with God's work? Just how big is the "Jewish homeland" supposed to be? The Torah said that Yahweh gave the ancient Israelites all the land from the Nile to the Euphrates. A fundamentalist Zionist can justify, based on a direct religious reference, that Israel can rightfully expand that far based on the direct word of God. And God never said the Israelis couldn't conquer more land beyond those bounds. It's a recipe for self-destructive never-ending conflict.

Israel's MO is pretty obvious at this point:

  1. Antagonize your neighbors just over the border until they start attacking you back.
  2. When your neighbors retaliate against your harassment and violence, send in the military to secure a "buffer zone," billed as a demilitarized zone like the Korean DMZ. Say you can't have Jews and Arabs living right next door to each other, so a buffer is needed.
  3. Once the buffer zone is established, let Jewish settlers in to build towns and cities in what was supposed to be an empty safety buffer.
  4. After a few years, Jews and Arabs are once again on each other's doorstep.
  5. Start again antagonizing the neighbors (who are usually the same people you displaced a generation ago.)

This has been Israel's strategy for decades. They've seized "buffer zone" after "buffer zone." They let their people move into the buffer zone, and then suddenly they don't have a buffer zone anymore. They use their own civilian population as human shields, putting them in a position where they are guaranteed to be attacked by angry people the Israeli government and settler forces are continually antagonizing. Then when they're inevitably attacked, that can be used to justify expanding the borders even further. Oh, and none of their neighbors can resist this process through direct military action, as Israel has a nuclear arsenal. No one can afford to get in a total war with Israel.

I really don't know where this ends. At this point I think the best thing for Mideast peace would be the Iranians, Egyptians, or Turks getting a nuclear weapon themselves. The only thing that's going to stop the never-ending drive for Israeli lebensraum is if they expand until they're up against someone too tough for them to boss around. And that's probably going to need to be a country that is themselves a nuclear power.

The other problem with this expansion is that it gets baked into the Israeli society and economy. It's a bit like what happened with ancient Rome. Their whole economy became dependent on this process of expanding, conquering peoples, subjugating and enslaving them, etc. They had to keep expanding just to keep their economy running. They paid their retired veterans with stolen land. The only way you can keep that model going is by expanding forever. And eventually they expanded beyond what they could manage. The same thing is happening in Israel. They have whole sectors of their economy dependent on this process of expansion and settlement. At this point, even if they wanted to, they can't just say, "ok, we've expanded enough. These are our fixed borders now and forever." They can't do that without collapsing the part of their economy that is dependent on selling and developing all the land they take. They can't have peace without causing a massive recession. They've become addicted to stealing land.

[–] ClimateChangeAnxiety@hexbear.net 22 points 1 day ago (1 children)

They use their own civilian population as human shields

Are they even civilians? Like 90+% of Israeli adults are current or former military, and the settlements are heavily armed.

Their entire population goes through a military training program and then after their official military service is over those soldiers are sent to steal land with no oversight.

[–] WoodScientist@hexbear.net 3 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I would say that you're a civilian if you aren't currently serving in the military, regardless of former military service. That's at least how it works under international law.

[–] sodium_nitride@hexbear.net 6 points 1 day ago

That's true, but I don't think settlers are considered civilians under international law either way

I would say being sent armed into stolen territory to hold that territory sounds a lot like military service

all the land from the Nile to the Euphrates

Notably no mention in which direction!