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the first film and show that come to mind are Primer and DARK, respectively.
Honestly, if Primer had any, I'm to dumb to spot them.
Primer is one of those movies that needs like 3 rewatches to spot a plot hole and no one's got time for that. Another good show of this type is Steins;Gate (totally watch it if you like time travel stuff)
YES, WATCH STEINS;GATE!
Not Steins;Gate Zero though, that's a sequel.
The most common criticism is that the first handful of episodes are slow, but I hard disagree. Every moment is either re-contextualized later on, or is important character work.
On the director's commentary, he states that the ultimate cause of Granger's illness is deliberately left vague and unexplained. That's kind of like a plot hole, sort of. Or maybe it's mystery box, and not a plot hole.
lol 100% same with DARK, tbf
*too
I rest my case
Primer is very smart about explanations in that it never fully explains anything. You’re only seeing their understanding of what they’ve stumbled across, which we can reasonably assume they barely understand themselves. After all, they accidentally invented time travel trying to create a device that reduces the mass of objects lmao they have no fucking clue what’s happening. The scene where they are debating what happens since he accidentally brought his cell phone back highlights how out of their depth they are. I don’t remember the exact lines, but Aaron says how cell phones work by pinging different towers until they find your phone. Then when Abe asks him “are you sure?” He says “no.”
They always kind of understand what’s happening but are ultimately making educated guesses.
Tbf the characters don't have to understand or explain anything. If there is a way for the internal logic of the movie to work without contradicting itself, that should be good enough for no plot holes.
The point though is they partially avoid contradictions by baking into the story that we and they don’t know anything.
We still know what we see. Many movies are equally vague about the actual mechanics and still introduce contradictions.
Yes but this movie hinges on being technical and appearing specific. It’s kind of an interesting sleight of hand. They keep saying what the rules are but they don’t actually know the rules. There’s nothing to contradict. Literally the end of the movie is “how did this dude find out and travel back?” They have no clue what happened, they don’t know the rules, the possibilities are endless.
They assume getting back in the box takes care of doubles. They are bleeding from their ears and losing fine motor skills. They are just guessing all the time, which means the rules aren’t defined and can’t really be contradicted.
All we see are end results from the perspective of two guys too clever and reckless and unethical for their own good. We know almost nothing for sure.
Ideally you shouldn't completely trust the characters either way. But ok it might be easier for the movie to avoid issues when there's little info. It gives more work to the viewer too.
It definitely gives a lot of work to the viewer, especially the last 15 minutes or so. I find most people who are kind of getting it typically lose the thread during the Granger debacle, sometimes during the party scene.
So I had nothing to do tonight and went back and rewatched it.
Not sure if spoilers but just in case
There's something more frustrating than the characters not knowing what they're doing. In many parts we don't get to see what happened. The whole movie seems to be from the perspective of one version of Aaron who wasn't even there most of the time(?) And some parts that he did experience are glanced over so you can't say for sure if there is a plot hole or not. The part where he finds himself going back twice in the same place is kinda weird but can probably be explained with the information we have.Appreciate you! Guess I need to rewatch it too
How was Dark’s finale not a plot hole?
Tap for spoiler
It’s a time loop story where the loop ends by characters behaving different than they did in any other iteration of the loop and for no particular reason.I had a hard time following the whole plot, so I could have easily missed something.
It's not a plot hole because:
spoiler
The show explains that during the moment of the apocalypse, time stands still for a short while. This is what Martha uses to keep the time loop going, but Claudia uses it to continuously gain more information about the loop they are in (by giving accumulated knowledge to her younger version). Then, using this knowledge, she makes Jonas & Martha use this same moment to travel to the origin world.If that's a plot hole, so is the whole time loop.
I definitely missed this. I had such a hard time following. And I was so LTTP that I had no one to talk about it with. I keep meaning to rewatch. Thanks for explaining!
No problem! I didn't really understand it during my first watch either, but rewatching a bunch of times definitely helped. Hope you enjoy!
Tap for spoiler
my understanding was that they travelled to the prime world and changed the event that led to the creation of the parallel worlds and preventing everything. The machine that led to everything never was built.Tap for spoiler
So the idea is there is a closed loop. There are events that initiate the plot. And by the end we realize the characters we’ve been following are responsible for those events. Thus creating a never ending cycle.But at the end of the series, 1 of the characters just decides to do something different. This ends the loop. But why did that character change his behavior? Only reason I could find is to make an ending for the show.
Worth noting, in spite of this, Dark is such an amazing watch that I recommend to everybody!
You’re correct. Dark had one of the most irrational and nonsensical endings in television history. It undermined everything the series had established and worked toward. Such a shame.
What do you think the show worked towards and established prior to the ending? Because in my eyes what the show did up to the ending was in service of the ending.
Have you seen Coherence?
I have not, but it looks cool, will put it on my list.
I highly recommend it, but it takes at least 3 watches to fully appreciate:
1st watch, going in blind: "What the hell was that?"
2nd watch, looking at details, trying to figure it out: "Okay, I think I get it."
3rd watch after scouring the internet: "Holy crap, they did this on that budget?"