this post was submitted on 22 Sep 2023
181 points (94.6% liked)

politics

19120 readers
2695 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

  1. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  2. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  3. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
  4. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  5. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

More than 15,000 people in Arizona have registered to join a new political party floating a possible bipartisan “unity ticket” against Joe Biden and Donald Trump.

While that’s less than the population of each of the state’s 40 largest cities, it’s still a number big enough to tip the presidential election in a critical swing state. And that is alarming people trying to stop Trump from winning the White House again.

The very existence of the No Labels group is fanning Democratic anxiety about Trump’s chances against an incumbent president facing questions about his age and record. While it hasn’t committed to running candidates for president and vice president, No Labels has already secured ballot access in Arizona and 10 other states. Its organizers say they are on track to reach 20 states by the end of this year and all 50 states by Election Day.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] Hildegarde@lemmy.world 45 points 1 year ago (2 children)

If a third party is enough to spoil your election, you should probably run a better candidate instead of complaining about it.

[–] Pips@lemmy.film 21 points 1 year ago (2 children)

The third party here is a spoiler to try to bleed people from the left to think there's a legitimate other option when their motive is to get a Republican elected. People on the left may not be equally susceptible to bad faith arguments, but that doesn't mean they're immune.

[–] rambaroo@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

So fund the libertarian party then. I'm sick of wimpy ass Democrats whining about how unfair everything is instead of actually fighting back.

You are not going to win over third party voters, so stop trying. Invest in spoiler candidates and spend most of the party's money on GOTV instead of blowing it on ads for the presidential candidate. It's honestly shocking how incompetent the Democrats are compared to the GOP, who pay for their voters to throw literal GOTV parties with neighborhoods full of GOTV organizers and canvassers. There's a reason they keep elections close despite being a minority.

Meanwhile Dems will just fucking blame voters if they lose again.

[–] PickTheStick@ttrpg.network 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Uh, just to clarify, GOTV is gay-owned tv? Gothic onesies tv? Government objectives tv? grasping ostentatiously tv?

[–] averyfalken@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Get out the vote apparently. The whole go vote thing people push round election time

[–] PickTheStick@ttrpg.network 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] averyfalken@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 1 year ago

Yw tbh I had to go duck duck go it

[–] Hildegarde@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

By your logic, every election was spoiled. There hasn't been an US presidential election without any third party candidates as far as I have been able to find.

The way to win elections is by running candidates people want to vote for. Complaining that people are running for office in a representative democracy is not a good way to win votes.

[–] jhymesba@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

This is valid logic in normal times. But these are not normal times. Let's get real here.

The First Past the Post system means Third Parties are virtually unelectable. Add to that the US system of government (needing a majority of votes to elect a Speaker or Senate Majority Leader, Electoral College, Majority needed to avoid POTUS picked by the House, etc), and we've got our own unique challenges to Third Parties, and those problems are going to need a Constitutional Convention to fix. People who willingly ignore this are stupid, and only serve to damage their political side.

If you need this explained again to you, here we go. Suppose 50.1% of the nation leans Left, while 49.9% leans right. That's a pretty narrow split. You really can't afford to lose anyone. But then some doofus comes up with a Left2 party and claims the mainstream Left party isn't doing enough, and if you just elect them, they'll give everyone the shiny golden alicorn that farts rainbows they swear they are owed. It doesn't take much. If 0.3% of the voters in the country believe that Left Party isn't doing enough, and switch their vote to Left2 Party, suddenly it's 49.9% Right, 49.8% Left, and 0.3% Left2, and now EVERYTHING Left and Left2 cherish is torn down by Right party, and you regress.

This is fine in most circumstances. You don't always get what you want, and sometimes, Left2 voters need to be reminded of this harshly by the Right party, and maybe in the next election, they'll figure out how voting works in the Not-So-United States of America, and they'll turn out to vote for Left party despite not getting the shiny golden alicorn that farts rainbows because they realise they aren't even getting a broken down old donkey from Team Right.

But these aren't normal times. We don't have Left and Right parties here in the USA today. We have Centre-Right and Fascist parties. You aren't getting a shiny golden alicorn that farts rainbows. Your choices right now are a slightly used donkey from Team ~~Left~~Centre Right, and a jackboot on your face from Team ~~Right~~Fascist. Team Shiny Alicorn is there to suck your votes away, but when you lift the curtain JUST a little on Shiny Alicorn, you see one of Team Fascist's goons operating the controls. We're just trying to ask you to make the smart choice here, buddy. But I'm helping my wife get set up for school in New Zealand, because I don't trust the rubes who will fall for the bait and switch with Team Shiny Alicorn...I half expect Trump to be POTUS and his goons to start looking for people like my Bisexual Black Pagan Goth Wife, and people like me who dare sully the White race by being with someone like her. Please prove me wrong....

[–] Pips@lemmy.film 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Let me be clear: this specific third party is most likely a GOP-led operation to bleed votes from the left. They do not have real policy goals that align with what people on the left actually want. Their goal is for a Republican to win, not someone from their party.

[–] Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The spoiler effect has been mathematically proven to be one of the defects of first-past-the-post elections by game theorists for quite some time. It doesn't really have anything to do with the candidates.

[–] Hildegarde@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

It is the job of elected officials to write and change laws. As this is a known issue of first past the post, democrats had every opportunity to push for amending elections to not use first past the post.

Its not right to complain about spoilers in elections when you have the power to do something about it, but chose not to.