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this post was submitted on 20 Oct 2023
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Biden siding with Israel is going to cost him the presidency. There's no way that this situation will be resolved by next November and Israel support is massively unpopular in the left.
I don't think it's as unpopular as you think it is. The internet skews perceptions.
Certainly not enough to stop supporting biden. I like what he has done so far. That being said I don't really want us involved although im sorta fine with the humanitarian efforts and warning other nations to not get involved. I mean its really mostly and iran thing but the token aid to israel sorta galls me. I don't think they really need it and I want us to see ukraine through.
And that basically what it is coming to. US doesn't want to get involved, but doesn't want this to grow beyond Israel VS Hamas.
Having said that Iran and Russia are trying hard to escalate the conflict.
Im not sure how much Iran wants this escalated. Sure I think they want to use it for their own internal propaganda spins but I doubt they want to be active in terms of their own people.
Iran is Russia ally, hates Israel, want US to be occupied with this so it won't pay attention to them and doesn't want any agreement between Israel and Saudi Arabia.
Keep in mind Iran and Russia want to escalate this, but via proxy, they are of course not interested in direct fight.
oh yeah. I could totally see proxy shit.
Me too… nothing has fundamentally changed, just like he promised his corporate donors
Democrat voters favor Palestine over Israel at a rate of 49% to 38% . Going against your voters' polling results is never a good thing when going into an election year
That's from March. Polls now are very different.
Polls show Americans agree with Biden on US foreign policy on Israel
More and more I realize I am not really American.
Wait but doesnt that mean they favour israel over palestine at a rate of 51% to 62%?
Oh wait i see now after clicking the link
Disregard above
They’ll vote blue, no matter who
If the GOP could pull out of their southern strategy death spiral a lot of Biden voters would go red. Against all evidence many people still consider R to be better on their wallet.
ugh. msn.
The same applies to the passage of many news cycles.
As awful as this is, I believe that Trump would be even worse, for both the country and the entire world. If it comes down to Biden and Trump, I’ll still vote for Biden… but not with much enthusiasm.
Israel is even more popular on the right, he's more likely to lose by NOT supporting Israel. The Republicans would have a field day if there was any hint that he wasn't supporting Israel 100%. You know they'd have Bibi in front of Congress the next day calling for more Republicans to be elected.
You think anyone at all who was planning to vote Biden will change their mind (and choose Trump over him) due to this?
Really?
Who?
The fact that trump is even a possible option still blows my fucking mind.
They don't need to. They just need to not vote. Low turnout is what swings elections to the right.
You think this will compel people who were planning to vote Biden to not vote?
I personally find that idea laughable. Anyone who is so easy to swing doesn't give a shit about Israel.
A significant percentage of people don't even make up their mind on who to vote for until the election day. It's absurd. With a margin that can determine the winner by 2% of the population changing their mind, our nation's future is decided by people the day of that felt more strongly about what they wanted for breakfast than who they wanted for president.
The margins are close enough in battleground states that they can easily be swung by people thinking "ah, fuck it. They both suck" and not going to the polls.
The idea is laughable. It's true though.
Fuck Biden for backing this war and apologizing for their war crimes. He is scum.
How has he apologized for their war crimes? That's not what I've heard him say at all
Not who you're responding to, but telling diplomats not to use the phrases “de-escalation/ceasefire”, “end to violence/bloodshed”, and “restoring calm” is a pretty close to a functional endorsement of them.
Presumably they mean in the "defend an unpopular position" sense of the word. The "say sorry" sense is actually the more recent one.
Vote for Trump then.
Are you implying that Trump (or any conservative) wouldn't also bend over backwards to Netanyahu? The US is an Israeli puppet state
I'd wager they're implying a "never Biden" stance is basically a vote for Trump in a contest between the two. In reality, Biden has clearly told Israel to restrain themselves and gotten them to agree to allow in humanitarian aid, whereas Trump would have them carpet-bombing Gaza
Exactly, he was the one who moved US embassy to Jerusalem and recognizing it as capital of Israel, even though he was advised to not do it.
He also claims he killed Soleimani (nearly starting war with Iran) because Nethanyahu asked him. Of course Nethanyahu won't admit it so we don't know, but I tend to think it probably is true as he would never give anyone credit, and claiming that doesn't save him.
Every policy he did in his 4 years was pro Israel. Things he didn't need to do and only were stirring the pot.
Now he magically supposedly supports Palestinians, calling Hezbollah smart. Interestingly when there seems to be similar position in Kremlin.
No, I am implying that your other choice is Trump, which is infinitely worse. So, not voting for Biden is giving one vote for Trump.
I see we're still pretending those are the only two options.
Unless you have ranked choice voting where you are, they are the only two options. Voting for a 3rd party in most of the US is the same thing as just not voting for whichever of the two main candidates you prefer against the other.
Actually doubtful. A voter that doesn't agree with the current level of support, would then vote for an (arguably worse in other aspects) alternative, which... will establish a higher level of support?
Sounds like your hypothetical voter might just choose to take more than one geopolitical issue into account when deciding the future for themselves, their family and fellow citizens.
I don't know. I get the feeling that it's massively unpopular in the circles people like you and I run in, but the average left-leaning voter is still pretty well conditioned to think Israel=good Palestine=bad. It's definitely not great and the Biden camp is surely not thrilled to have to deal with it but I don't think it'll hurt them too much.
I hope so anyway, because if Biden does lose the presidency we'll end up with someone who would be fine with just nuking Gaza.
I've honestly been baffled by how the left has suddenly latched on to Palestinian support and Israeli hatred. I'm pretty far left and my stance is that both sides are wrong. Supporting one or the other is unhelpful and you are supporting a war criminal government/organization whichever you choose.
Support the people. Give aid where it is needed. Help to eliminate the violent elements.
No one supports Hamas. The left support is for the Palestinians. While the asks for Israeli support are for the governments current plans and actions.
Hamas's attack is a horror committed by a terrorist organization that we have no real influence over or responsibility for, and which is basically over, while the other is an ongoing war crime, with little signs of slowing, being perpetrated by a US ally. To some extent our tax dollars paid for the military that's killing civilians and our support allows them to keep going despite international condemnation. If Israel chose to or if sufficient international pressure were brought to bear, they could not murder any more people. More innocent people die the more strongly the US supports Israel while condemnations of Hamas do nothing other than confirm evil people are bad.
Actual leftists in the US don’t vote so their support doesn’t really matter.
Support for Israel is extremely popular with liberals, moderates, and conservatives. It’ll solidify support among the liberals that do vote, take away a swing issue for moderates, and probably help swing some anti Trump conservatives to him.
Nope.
Siding with Israel over... Hamas?
Personally I don't find that to be very controversial at all, as Hamas aren't exactly angels. You'd have to have the memory of a goldfish to forget that Hamas just led a mass terrorist attack (if you consider Hamas a legitimate military force, which I do not, then please substitute "terrorist attack" with "war crimes campaign") against Israeli civilians including old women and young children.
To state what should be obvious to everyone, you don't have to be pro-Hamas to feel empathy for innocent Palestinians. I feel that Biden's actions and rhetoric have been reasonable and measured on this extremely complex and highly volatile conflict.
We also don't know the full extent of the talks between Biden and Netenyahu. All we can do is try and teach our to our representatives.
https://youtu.be/GwlCTc3YluY?si=918WbFLhN55uvREp
Yeah, because siding with Hamas would surely win hearts.