this post was submitted on 20 Oct 2023
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Speaking from the Oval Office starting at 8 p.m. ET, Biden made the case to Americans that it's vital to both global and U.S. national security to assist Israel as it responds to terror attacks by Hamas as well as to continue help for Ukraine as it fends off Russian invaders.

"Hamas and Putin represent different threads but they share this in common: They both want to completely annihilate a neighboring democracy," Biden said, referring to the extremists and Russia's president.

Biden said he knows the conflicts can seem distant and Americans might be asking why it's vital to U.S. security interests that Israel and Ukraine succeed.

"History has taught us that when terrorists don't pay a price for their terror, when dictators don't pay a price for their aggression, they cause more chaos and debt and more destruction," Biden said. "They keep going -- and the cost and the threats to America and the world keep rising."

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[–] PP_BOY_@lemmy.world 25 points 1 year ago (13 children)

Biden siding with Israel is going to cost him the presidency. There's no way that this situation will be resolved by next November and Israel support is massively unpopular in the left.

[–] stealthnerd@lemmy.world 56 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I don't think it's as unpopular as you think it is. The internet skews perceptions.

[–] HubertManne@kbin.social 27 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Certainly not enough to stop supporting biden. I like what he has done so far. That being said I don't really want us involved although im sorta fine with the humanitarian efforts and warning other nations to not get involved. I mean its really mostly and iran thing but the token aid to israel sorta galls me. I don't think they really need it and I want us to see ukraine through.

[–] takeda@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

And that basically what it is coming to. US doesn't want to get involved, but doesn't want this to grow beyond Israel VS Hamas.

Having said that Iran and Russia are trying hard to escalate the conflict.

[–] HubertManne@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Im not sure how much Iran wants this escalated. Sure I think they want to use it for their own internal propaganda spins but I doubt they want to be active in terms of their own people.

[–] takeda@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Iran is Russia ally, hates Israel, want US to be occupied with this so it won't pay attention to them and doesn't want any agreement between Israel and Saudi Arabia.

Keep in mind Iran and Russia want to escalate this, but via proxy, they are of course not interested in direct fight.

[–] HubertManne@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

oh yeah. I could totally see proxy shit.

Me too… nothing has fundamentally changed, just like he promised his corporate donors

[–] PP_BOY_@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Democrat voters favor Palestine over Israel at a rate of 49% to 38% . Going against your voters' polling results is never a good thing when going into an election year

[–] deconstruct@lemm.ee 18 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social 5 points 1 year ago

More and more I realize I am not really American.

[–] MindSkipperBro12@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

They’ll vote blue, no matter who

[–] qwertilliopasd@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

If the GOP could pull out of their southern strategy death spiral a lot of Biden voters would go red. Against all evidence many people still consider R to be better on their wallet.

[–] Account5600@artemis.camp 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Wait but doesnt that mean they favour israel over palestine at a rate of 51% to 62%?

[–] Account5600@artemis.camp 1 points 1 year ago

Oh wait i see now after clicking the link

Disregard above

[–] HubertManne@kbin.social -1 points 1 year ago
[–] spider@lemmy.nz 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The internet skews perceptions.

The same applies to the passage of many news cycles.

[–] magnetosphere@kbin.social 19 points 1 year ago

As awful as this is, I believe that Trump would be even worse, for both the country and the entire world. If it comes down to Biden and Trump, I’ll still vote for Biden… but not with much enthusiasm.

[–] OpenPassageways@lemmy.zip 16 points 1 year ago

Israel is even more popular on the right, he's more likely to lose by NOT supporting Israel. The Republicans would have a field day if there was any hint that he wasn't supporting Israel 100%. You know they'd have Bibi in front of Congress the next day calling for more Republicans to be elected.

[–] morphballganon@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

You think anyone at all who was planning to vote Biden will change their mind (and choose Trump over him) due to this?

Really?

Who?

[–] netburnr@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago

The fact that trump is even a possible option still blows my fucking mind.

[–] Vash63@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

They don't need to. They just need to not vote. Low turnout is what swings elections to the right.

[–] morphballganon@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You think this will compel people who were planning to vote Biden to not vote?

I personally find that idea laughable. Anyone who is so easy to swing doesn't give a shit about Israel.

[–] bitwaba@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

A significant percentage of people don't even make up their mind on who to vote for until the election day. It's absurd. With a margin that can determine the winner by 2% of the population changing their mind, our nation's future is decided by people the day of that felt more strongly about what they wanted for breakfast than who they wanted for president.

The margins are close enough in battleground states that they can easily be swung by people thinking "ah, fuck it. They both suck" and not going to the polls.

The idea is laughable. It's true though.

[–] Fredselfish@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Fuck Biden for backing this war and apologizing for their war crimes. He is scum.

[–] protist@mander.xyz 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

How has he apologized for their war crimes? That's not what I've heard him say at all

[–] Zaktor@sopuli.xyz 5 points 1 year ago

Not who you're responding to, but telling diplomats not to use the phrases “de-escalation/ceasefire”, “end to violence/bloodshed”, and “restoring calm” is a pretty close to a functional endorsement of them.

[–] SheeEttin@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

Presumably they mean in the "defend an unpopular position" sense of the word. The "say sorry" sense is actually the more recent one.

Actually doubtful. A voter that doesn't agree with the current level of support, would then vote for an (arguably worse in other aspects) alternative, which... will establish a higher level of support?

Sounds like your hypothetical voter might just choose to take more than one geopolitical issue into account when deciding the future for themselves, their family and fellow citizens.

[–] makyo@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

I don't know. I get the feeling that it's massively unpopular in the circles people like you and I run in, but the average left-leaning voter is still pretty well conditioned to think Israel=good Palestine=bad. It's definitely not great and the Biden camp is surely not thrilled to have to deal with it but I don't think it'll hurt them too much.

I hope so anyway, because if Biden does lose the presidency we'll end up with someone who would be fine with just nuking Gaza.

[–] Drusas@kbin.social 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I've honestly been baffled by how the left has suddenly latched on to Palestinian support and Israeli hatred. I'm pretty far left and my stance is that both sides are wrong. Supporting one or the other is unhelpful and you are supporting a war criminal government/organization whichever you choose.

Support the people. Give aid where it is needed. Help to eliminate the violent elements.

[–] Zaktor@sopuli.xyz 7 points 1 year ago

No one supports Hamas. The left support is for the Palestinians. While the asks for Israeli support are for the governments current plans and actions.

Hamas's attack is a horror committed by a terrorist organization that we have no real influence over or responsibility for, and which is basically over, while the other is an ongoing war crime, with little signs of slowing, being perpetrated by a US ally. To some extent our tax dollars paid for the military that's killing civilians and our support allows them to keep going despite international condemnation. If Israel chose to or if sufficient international pressure were brought to bear, they could not murder any more people. More innocent people die the more strongly the US supports Israel while condemnations of Hamas do nothing other than confirm evil people are bad.

[–] donuts@kbin.social 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

siding with Israel

Siding with Israel over... Hamas?

Personally I don't find that to be very controversial at all, as Hamas aren't exactly angels. You'd have to have the memory of a goldfish to forget that Hamas just led a mass terrorist attack (if you consider Hamas a legitimate military force, which I do not, then please substitute "terrorist attack" with "war crimes campaign") against Israeli civilians including old women and young children.

To state what should be obvious to everyone, you don't have to be pro-Hamas to feel empathy for innocent Palestinians. I feel that Biden's actions and rhetoric have been reasonable and measured on this extremely complex and highly volatile conflict.

[–] DrPop@lemmy.one 3 points 1 year ago

We also don't know the full extent of the talks between Biden and Netenyahu. All we can do is try and teach our to our representatives.

[–] Earthwormjim91@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

Actual leftists in the US don’t vote so their support doesn’t really matter.

Support for Israel is extremely popular with liberals, moderates, and conservatives. It’ll solidify support among the liberals that do vote, take away a swing issue for moderates, and probably help swing some anti Trump conservatives to him.

[–] deconstruct@lemm.ee 3 points 1 year ago

Nope.

In Quinnipiac’s latest poll, 48% of Democratic voters say their sympathies are more with Israelis compared to 22% who said Palestinians. That’s a massive change from the 46% for Palestinians and 23% for Israelis in May 2021. Fox’s poll, likewise, has shown support for Israel up by 17 points among Democrats compared to 2021. 

[–] takeda@lemmy.world -3 points 1 year ago

Yeah, because siding with Hamas would surely win hearts.