this post was submitted on 14 Nov 2023
427 points (98.9% liked)

politics

19089 readers
3972 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

  1. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  2. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  3. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
  4. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  5. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] IHeartBadCode@kbin.social 75 points 1 year ago (4 children)

arguing that the founding fathers wanted faith to be a “big part” of government

No they didn't. They came from a nation where the King was head of State and Church. That was literally one of the things they absolutely DID NOT want in the next form of government.

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between Church & State.

— Thomas Jefferson (1802)

There needs to be an understanding that many founding fathers of this nation wanted religion to be between themselves and their chosen god. Because there isn't a "establish religion within Government" that's what foolish people think it always ends as "Government establishing religion".

Like we could have Members of Congress that establish laws and participate within the marketplace they have created, come win or lose. However, we know that instead Members of Congress manipulate the market solely for wins at the loss to others.

If Congress cannot help themselves to be greedy when given a free market, what makes anyone think that they won't outright dictate religion if given the chance? And the answer is, they wouldn't. That's why there is a separation. Given the chance, if enough Baptist got into power, they would absolutely outlaw Catholics.

The Founding Fathers weren't idiots. They absolutely held tight to the "power corrupts but absolute power corrupts absolutely." Any time a government is handed the power to mix religion and law, that law turns into dictating religion. That's why there is a separation. So we don't have to go Salem Witch hunting folks based on which definition of the Trinity they hold to.

They all think this moment of peace between the various Christianities will just last until forever, not realizing that the reason there is this peace is because all of the various flavors get treated equally. Change that equation and we're right back to the 1600s where we've got one cult trying to murder and outlaw the others.

These idiots have zero idea what they are clamoring for. They think their team, should the equality barrier get taken away, will be the one that wins out. And it's likely that enough zealots exist that Speaker Johnson would be burned at the stake for some odd reason his version of God isn't the correct one. Or even worse, Speaker Johnson's version get outlawed so it'll be legal and cool to burn him at the stake.

Like how bad does one have to fail at history to not understand this point?

[–] SinningStromgald@lemmy.world 32 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Mikey doesn't care about history as long as his White Christian Theocracy comes to fruition, no matter the cost.

[–] timetravelingnoodles@kbin.social 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)

That cost is always paid in blood

[–] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

“But it won’t be my blood”-every power grabber ever

[–] agent_flounder@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

It's a sacrifice they're willing to make.

[–] SinningStromgald@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

And he doesn't care one iota.

[–] kromem@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago

Like how bad does one have to fail at history to not understand this point?

You're talking about someone who thinks the Earth is 6,000 years old.

Failing at constitutional history is the least of his historical problems.

[–] lolcatnip@reddthat.com 6 points 1 year ago

Like how bad does one have to fail at history to not understand this point?

They don't care.