this post was submitted on 07 Jan 2024
146 points (97.4% liked)

politics

19159 readers
4540 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

  1. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  2. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  3. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
  4. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  5. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

LOS ANGELES (AP) — A new California law that bans people from carrying firearms in most public places was once again blocked from taking effect Saturday as a court case challenging it continues.

A 9th Circuit Court of Appeals panel dissolved a temporary hold on a lower court injunction blocking the law. The hold was issued by a different 9th Circuit panel and had allowed the law to go into effect Jan. 1.

Saturday’s decision keeps in place a Dec. 20 ruling by U.S. District Judge Cormac Carney blocking the law. Carney said that it violates the Second Amendment and that gun rights groups would likely prevail in proving it unconstitutional.

The law, signed by Democratic Gov. Gavin Newsom, prohibits people from carrying concealed guns in 26 types of places including public parks and playgrounds, churches, banks and zoos. The ban applies regardless of whether a person has a concealed carry permit.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 20 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Why is it that states have nearly absolute power when it's something a Republican wants but if it's something a Democrat wants the state is a tyrant?

[–] orcrist@lemm.ee 21 points 10 months ago (2 children)

California has a long history of trying to keep guns out of black people's hands. Black Panthers, for example. In other words, it's not only about Republican vs. Democrat here. Interesting history.

[–] EndlessApollo@lemmy.world 13 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Shhh, they don't understand nuance, you might hurt their brain with the knowledge that gun control started as a racist thing (and often still is bigoted, look at republicans whining about pride events arming up after that nightclub shooting a few months ago)

[–] agitatedpotato@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Modern gun laws were never designed to be used against white people and some people wonder how we keep hearing how white conservatives shooters get guns legally despite flags like psych holds on their record.

[–] Reddit_Is_Trash@reddthat.com 11 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Probably because carrying and owning firearms is a right, turns out it's pretty hard to restrict people's rights.

The same law would get blocked if it banned free speech in public

[–] orcrist@lemm.ee 2 points 10 months ago

We all know that rights aren't universal. 1A isn't, 2A isn't, none of them are. In other words, it's easy to restrict people's rights. The question is always how much the courts will allow.

[–] quindraco@lemm.ee -3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I mean, it isn't. You name the right, I'll name how it's restricted.

To go with your example, these are examples of illegal speech, i.e. restrictions on free speech in public:

  • Fraud
  • Defamation
  • Threats
[–] HelixDab2@lemm.ee 6 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

All of those things are things that cause real, direct harms, with speech as the weapon. (Also, defamation is a tort, not a crime.) On the other hand, lying, for instance, is absolutely legally protected speech, except in fairly limited circumstances. I can quite legally lie on my resume to get a job that I wouldn't otherwise get, and about the worst that can happen is that I can be fired. I can lie about being a Navy Seal and having gotten a Medal of Honor in Afghanistan, and there's pretty much fuck-all anyone can do about it ("stolen valor" laws were deemed unconstitutional by SCOTUS).

Mere ownership of a firearm, or even carrying, does not cause a direct harm. Brandishing a firearm--which is usually defined something like 'threatening someone with a firearm'--is the rough equivalent of the things that you list.

[–] quindraco@lemm.ee -4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

All of those things are things that cause real, direct harms, with speech as the weapon.

Neither Federal nor State legislators - nor judges - care whether or not a crime is victimless. See e.g. the War on Drugs.

Also, defamation is a tort, not a crime.

That makes defamatory speech easier to restrict by reducing the plaintiff's burden of proof.

[–] HelixDab2@lemm.ee 2 points 10 months ago

Defamation is also a 3-pronged test, assuming that you aren't talking about a public figure. It needs to be false (truth is an absolute defense against defamation), you need to have either known that it was false, or have had reckless indifference to the truth, and you need to have caused some kind of measurable harm (and hurting your feelings isn't a measurable harm). All of that is played out against a field of lawyers in a civil suit that charge by the hour. Defamation is actually quite challenging to win in the US, unless the person that is alleging defamation has a lot of money to spend on attorneys to buy the defendant.

[–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world -4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

That's ridiculous and you know it. The second amendment wasn't meant for cosplaying in the first place. You can tell if you actually read it.

[–] Liz@midwest.social 2 points 10 months ago

Good thing rights are literally just and social construct and aren't limited to what's specifically in the Constitution. Anyway the Supreme Court basically rewrote history in 2008 and 2010 and decided the second amendment was totally intended to protect the individual right to a firearm. I think they're wrong, but I also think that humans have a right to personal weapons, so we'll just pretend they're right. Anyway, you can come up with come creative reinterpretations of the Constitution after the post-civil war amendments decided that the bill of rights applied to state laws. But really, you depend on that reinterpretation to protect you from cops and other forms of state-level tyranny so picking and choosing gets a little iffy.

[–] theyoyomaster@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

This is a specifically enshrined Constitutional right. That's literally the purpose of the Bill of Rights and states don't get to ignore them.

[–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 0 points 10 months ago

Which well regulated militia are you in?