So, wait, for usenet you don't need a vpn? Sorry if this a somewhat naive question, usenet is just such a foggy concept for me tht I have no idea how it works.

[–] Darkassassin07@lemmy.ca 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

No you don't.

For one, you're not hosting the content (seeding) like you are with torrents. Claimants aren't generally concerned about the people downloading, they go after the hosts.

And two, you are establishing an encrypted connection to a usenet server which you are then downloading through. Because that traffic is encrypted (like it would be with a vpn), it can't be inspected for illegal/copyrighted content (though that's incredibly rare, ISPs have no incentive to inspect your traffic like that, torrent or otherwise).

Usenet at its core is just an old message board system. People have uploaded files to those message boards by splitting them into small parts and posting the compressed plaintext of each file part into a message on a usenet server. You then read/download each of those posted messages, decompress them, then reassemble all the parts to get the original file. (this is all done automatically by your usenet client and an .nzb file telling it what parts to grab in what order).

Copyright claims can still be filed/submitted, but they go to the usenet provider and are their responsibility to handle and takedown content, not yours as a user/customer.

[–] RootBeerGuy@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Thanks for elaborating!

If you don't mind I have a follow up question. Why would a usenet provider protect users who clearly store illegal files on their servers, when ISPs are easily ratting out their customers?

[–] Darkassassin07@lemmy.ca 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

It's less about protecting them, and more not pushing away your customers. Very little activity on usenet isn't file sharing now a days and few of those files are above bar... But they'll take on that risk for you, for a little bit of your money. It's part of the business model.

Again copyright holders aren't generally interested in those downloading content, but those hosting the content to be downloaded. With usenet you are shifting that hosting away from you, and paying for that security of it being someone elses problem. If a usenet host gets taken down/raided, it's very very unlikely the authorities would then go after everyone on the customer list; that's neither practical nor worthwhile, especially as it typically crosses international borders amd very little info is stored about usenet customers. They'll just move on to targeting the next host.

With torrents, you are the host. You're broadcasting to trackers what content you have and the fact that you want someone to download it from you, painting a big target on your back.

Usenet also provides a little bit of reasonable doubt as the host isn't the one posting data to the service, and the files posted to usenet are broken into many parts and compressed individually. Without the index file (which isn't posted to usenet) to re-combine the parts in the right order and see the whole thing, it's not clear at all that it's illegal or copyrighted content to be able to take action on it. Maybe it was a rip of the new Guardians movie, maybe it's just a cat picture 🤷. This heavily delays the takedown process and allows the host to say they were reasonably unaware of the content, dodging responsibility/consequences.

[–] Shere_Khan@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 year ago

That was a good write up

[–] madcaesar@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What's the advantage over a seedbox for example?

[–] Darkassassin07@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 year ago

The provider of your seedbox may or may not tolerate copyright notices due to your activities and cut you off. Some are really really short tempered.

Usenet providers are much less likely to cut you off as they are well aware of and supporting the use case here.

I've also found more content available with usenet than torrenting (I only used public trackers/indexers though), and I'm constantly running into limits with how quickly I can write data to disk/ssd vs waiting on slow af torrents to finally finish a week later.

[–] sockenklaus@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

But isn't this kinda like the one click hosters like Rapidshare or Megaupload? Those services (at least the big ones I think) have been taken down for copyright infringement although they had the benefit of the doubt because data was stored fragmented and encrypted. Or am I not seeing something important?

[–] Darkassassin07@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

From what I understand Usenet is a more distributed system, with usenet servers sharing vast amounts of data between each other. Many of those servers are not located in the US, so prosecution becomes difficult without international cooperation.

It's also a system that's been around since 1980 and hasn't been taken down yet. I'm sure individuals providers have overtime, but usenet as a whole chugs on with data exceeding 20 years old depending on the retention of your particular provider, usually 5000-8000days.

[–] solitude@lemmy.one 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Thanks you for all the detailed information. I've been interested in usenet for a long, long time (not just since rarbg went down). The problem for me is, I've recently gone to "r/usenet Wiki" and there is just so much information there, in addition to a significant amount of providers and a significant amount of indexers to sift through. I appreciate the variety of info and choices, but to just get started, I feel like there is too much information to familiarize myself with just to jump in. I wish there was like a "starter pack" type area, like choose one of these three for this, choose one of these three for that, to just get a good start.

I have NZBGet, and I've used r/UsenetInvites to get invites to nzbplanet and drunkenslug (but have not paid for them yet). I haven't taken the time to figure out what else I may need to just get rolling. I also think my main concern is, do I need to add one more in order to find old or "dated" TV shows, movies, or music?

Coming from using a VPN bound to qBit for years, to later learning how to automatically add ngosang & newtrackon trackers/indexers to each torrent I'm downloading, and eventually setting up qBit search plugins (like Jacket & Prowlarr), and being someone who likes to analyze all the options, I'm finding the entry barrier a little overwhelming. I believe the term would be "analysis paralysis." I'm frustrated with too much information, especially because of who I am. I just want getting started a little more streamlined.

[–] Darkassassin07@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 year ago

Tbh I didn't do a huge amount of research into what provider or indexer to use. Like you I saw far too many options and was a little overwhelmed. Instead I just grabbed a cheap option and figured I'll explore others later if I feel the need.

Went with Frugal Usenet as a provider, NZBGeek for an indexer, and SABnzbd for a client. $6/mo to have a feel around and see what's up. Been pretty happy so far.

I've been casually thinking about this change for a few years now, but finally decided to jump in the other week. I should have tried sooner.