this post was submitted on 03 Feb 2024
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"LOL KILL PEOPLE"
Edit: I'm an a supporter of all trans rights and freedoms. Trans people do not have the freedom to kill people. Let me say that again more broadly: NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO KILL ANYONE.
if you're having homicidal thoughts, know that's pretty bad and maybe let your therapist know. Let's stay on the path of reality and peace.
You have the right to kill in self defense. Many countries consider self defense from a credible threat to be just cause to kill someone.
Even those countries that don't permit their citizens to use lethal force in self defense are hypocrites, because they will have an army and some branch of armed law enforcement.
Trans people are much more likely to be murdered than cis people. Being armed to mitigate that risk is a not an unreasonable decision. In the US, if a transphobe poses an imminent threat to your life you DO have a legal right to kill them, in most states, laws do vary.
That's stating the obvious. Further, laws are not Rights nor moral guides. Killing is wrong. Attacking trans people is wrong. The folks in this thread are wrong for lusting to kill. I recommend watching some videos of actual killings and murders and see if you really want to be involved with that.
The only person lusting after anything is you, lusting after trans people remaining passive targets, and transphobes in power who are actively and openly lusting to eliminate trans people from existence.
What everyone here is doing is showing appreciation to a supportive father who understands that their child, being trans, will almost certainly need to defend themselves from that.
I recommend reading the tolerance paradox, and then maybe some history, which will teach you (if you pay any attention at all) that no oppressed people has EVER gained their freedom "peacefully", and that you demanding it is not only the epitome of privilege, but an active support of those looking to do the eliminating.
I assure you, I've read through that literature for a long time. I'm concluding that I'm dealing with a bunch of angry teenagers here. I am in no way shape or form desiring that trans people remain passive targets. if you're being attacked obviously defend yourself. again this has nothing to do with what I'm saying. Sitting around and seething in anger wishing you had an opportunity to kill and imagining all the scenarios in which you're going to kill somebody it's not the same as standing up for yourself or defending yourself. This is becoming a stupid waste of my time and I am sure the FBI will keep records on all of you should you actually decide to pick up a gun and do anything about your feelings.
I haven't seen that in this thread at all. All I've seen is people commenting on being prepared. No one should want to kill anyone, but sometimes people have the right to (which you agree with now but started saying they don't) to defend themselves.
CITATION NEEDED
From your top comment of this thread:
People do sometimes have the right to kill someone.
Righteousness is in the eye of the beholder. If in the act of defending yourself, you kill somebody, is that objectively a good righteous thing? Is that not a bloody stain on the world? Will there not be blood on your hands? Would you be happy about the fact that you killed somebody for the rest of your life? Will you always feel that it was righteous to do so? And do you think anyone in a similar situation should feel perfectly justified and freely killing anybody who they feel threatens them in self-defense to just kill and that this is the right thing to do? I don't think so, so no I don't believe you have a right to kill somebody every death is a tragedy, the story may just be longer than the particular interaction that led to that killing. Are there deaths that are necessary for the survival of the "good guys"? Maybe, doesn't make it right to me. It just sucks all around.
What is your alternative then? Let's hear it.
If some transphobe/homophobe/racist/etc corners me and my family/friends (again), what should I do according to you? I'm curious.
... What did you do the first time it happened to you? You said "(again)" so did you literally KILL them? Or do you simply regret not KILLING them. Apparently since I don't approve of killing people I have to list all the incountable ways that you can deal with all kinds of negative confrontations without resorting to literally killing someone. This has been a very stupid day defending the most basic idea that maybe we shouldn't just kill people and maybe we shouldn't fantasize about killing people.
I didn't, but only through luck. If we weren't lucky, I would have had to kill them, or more likely I would have had to try to.
Please, do tell me how I could have managed to deal with multiple drunk guys cornering and trying to beat/stab us to death.
I think what's even more stupid, is coming into a community of vulnerable people, and telling them that by defending themselves from aggressors makes them bad people, that they'll have blood on their hands and they won't be able to live with themselves.
I honestly think you're either one of two things: You're either an alt right troll, or worse, you're someone who thinks themselves an ally, but has absolutely zero practical experience in the matter.
I mean anyone who says the following:
Is either trolling, or unintentionally trying to get people killed through bad advice.
Either way, you're helping the regressives, not us.
This post is riddled with logical fallacies and bad faith arguments. You're position on me, my comments, and my message have all been apparently precast by you and I'm old enough to know that nothing I say or do short of complete submission and withdrawal will satisfy you.
Regarding your confrontation story, you can literally say anything here to contort the events to fit your narrative and nullify any point I'm trying to make regardless of the quality of thought I might put in. So we're done on that front.
Your next problem is apparently reading comprehension:
Did you know that written text on the Internet is not real life? Reality is an insanely chaotic flow of immeasurable complexity, and the hopelessly simple distillations of it that our puny brains attempt to make by describing it with words always fails to capture true reality. What I can only hope to describe about the situation you seem dependent on as your only source of protection against others (killing in self defense) are just a few of the potential consequences that could arguably manifest from doing such a thing.
My head my be really far up my own ass because I don't see where I'm telling people not to defend themselves. Or that they're bad people for doing so. Just saying it's complicated and in my life experience, things aren't black and white simple like that.
Further, your dislike of me appears to be so strong that you are willing to say things that deny simple universal truths, like that if you kill someone, there will be figurative blood on your hands. This is true regardless of the situation. The sky is blue, water is wet, and if you kill, blood gets on your hands. Not sure what to do with you regarding this, seems hopeless to me.
More on your lack of reading comprehension:
I'm not even sure what about my words or how I'm presenting my thoughts qualifies as advice? Also, pepper spray doesn't work? Really? Do you know what pepper spray is? I'm no weapons expert so please enlighten me if I'm wrong in saying pepper effective in certain self defense situations.
And most importantly, in that phrase you quoted, I was talking about the composition of the originally posted image. As in, the person who authored the content of the image, as I am assuming it is a work of fiction, purposely chose those details to incite a specific emotional response. I wasn't actually trying to give real advice to victims of assault, that would be insanely foolish, irresponsible, and wrong of me to do so. Which is why I didn't, although you seem happy to accuse me of doing so anyway.
And finally:
I'm neither, in fact. I'm not an ally, as I understand it, allies help. I've done nothing to help. I'm just a run-of-the-mill lefty. I'm not claiming to be anything else. When I vote, I vote for liberal policies and minority rights. The rest of the time, I'm dealing with life as any other human on this planet must do.
You seem to have mistaken your feelings for facts in your writing. Your statements have an anger that could not have come from me, I think you're unfairly projecting outside emotions onto me and my words which is not the way to make friends. I know this changes nothing for you, so have a nice day. I hope it goes well for you when you kill someone for reasons you think are justified.
Don't sell yourself short. You are an ally, you are helping. Just not the side you think you are.
And just like your fellow regressives, you desperately reject reality until it personally affects you.
I just hope that when it does, it isn't someone else who pays that price for you.
Have a good day.
I totally agree. Any good person who has to kill another person is going to question it for the rest of their lives. That's the issue. A not as good person doesn't care. It's better to live in regret than not live at all. It sucks so fucking much that anyone has to deal with it, but the world sucks. There isn't a perfect answer.
fwiw I think you're being completely reasonable
If you're in a situation where you can justifiably kill in selfself defense, choosing inaction will not prevent your involvement with that.
No one is encouraging trans people to kill innocent people for no reason.
They're also much more likely to commit suicide.
If it does mitigate that risk. It also increases the risk of suicide, though, which is already much higher than average for trans people.
If they are coming after them for something stupid like that?
So I started blasting
I don't want to kill, but if it comes down to them or me, I always pick me.
And a face full of 00 buckshot is a pretty good tool to get the job done 🤷♂️
Self defense is a human right.
And you can't defend yourself without a gun?
If the guy attacking you has a gun, no
Nothing to do with anything I said. Learn to read.
You posted "lol kill people" and started complaining about trans people doing homicide about a post that is clearly about self defence. That seems to be exactly what you're saying or you need to work on your reading comprehension.
CITATION NEEDED
I'm going to assume you're not trolling but at this point I think it's a lost cause tbh
"NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO KILL ANYONE"
"if you're having homicidal thoughts"
etcetc
I must be blind because I don't see the word "trans" in any your quotations. Those certainly are things I wrote however. I also don't see where I was complaining about " trans people doing homicide"
So then why post it under a thread about trans people doing self defense? Like if someone says "trans people has the right to defend themselves" and you say “NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO KILL ANYONE” and “if you’re having homicidal thoughts...” that is what you're implying. You're doing the classic far right troll thing where someone makes a pretty basic statement and you respond with something obtuse implying the person said something they didn't, and then when called out just keep backtracking and pretending that's not what you meant.
First of all I appreciate the quality of your statements and I should thank you for being a real person and engaging with me in this way, thank you.
The original posting was most likely a fake story from 4chan about a southern cowboy father giving his trans child a gun so as to defend themselves against any sort of bigoted violent attack. We're all supposed to feel good about this loving caring father figure, and presumably lament the fact that our own parents weren't as supportive of our own eccentricities growing up.
Simultaneously we are expected to implicitly accept that guns are solution to anything, that possession of a gun will prevent violent bigoted attacks by being a form of "self defense," and that this father raised their child in an environment where there would be susceptible to such attacks and that's fine and not to be questioned.
Guns are machines designed to kill people. If self defense was really the goal why didn't the father gift their child a bullet proof vest or a shield or pepper spray or a taser or any other of the myriad options that exist in the real world to defend yourself from attackers?
In my mind the reason the posting has a gun as the gift and that the responders in this thread love the posting so much is because guns are for killing and this satisfies the very fantasy and desire that any angry repressed person has which is to kill their oppressors. It's a simple fantasy where there's the hero with the gun and quickly they just shoot and kill the person or people that's causing them all their problems.
This is not a good psychological situation. I grew up physically and emotionally abused to the extent where I fantasized killing my parents and others often. I have anger and other emotional issues to this day. I know very well how this feels. Being much older and much calmer now I know how bad it was to be this way; I was a victim. So forgive me for coming off like a far right troll I promise you I'm not. I'm a solidly left leaning atheist with a PhD and I work in a research lab. I don't want people to fantasize about murder it doesn't lead to anything good it doesn't solve any problems and this post has an implicit murder fantasy that's why I'm spending all this time to argue with people that it's not good and to find other ways to deal with these feelings.
Thank you for that response I appreciate that! I'm glad you are in a better place now and I completely understand where you are coming from. I agree that fantasizing about murder is harmful and that the first option should never be to result to violence.
I also understand where the OP and many of the comments are coming from too. I think many, myself included, are very frightened about what direction the US and many other countries today are going towards. I don't own a gun nor do I ever intend to, but I have friends who are trans that wants to own one. Not at all due to anger but just because they are realistic about the situation and knows the importance of self defense for them and their family.
I am a strong proponent of forming strong communities based on self defense similar to what the black panthers did. I interpret the way people are responding as a call towards that type of organizing not as some form of vigilante justice. Maybe that's wrong idk but I think when people post stuff like this it comes from a general sense that people don't take the threat that marginalized groups face seriously and this is a way of increasing awareness towards that. And yeah I'm sure for some it comes from a place of anger but if you are trans you might fear for your life just going outside. When other people don't recognize that fear as legitimate or aren't finding ways to make you safe, anger is a understandable reaction I think even if it isn't the best response. I just think that we shouldn't focus so much of our attention on that reaction and more towards preventing what is triggering it.
Yes, because there's far too many shitheads that would Matthew Shepard OOP.
Also suicidal thoughts. If you want to defend yourself, there are lots of much safer methods than getting a gun.
revolutions involve homicide. get real
Ain't no revolution tho is there, get real
No one has the right to kill people. But trnasphobes are just people-adjacent.