this post was submitted on 08 Feb 2024
206 points (96.0% liked)

politics

19244 readers
2361 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

  1. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  2. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  3. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
  4. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  5. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

The dispute comes from Colorado — but it could have national implications for Trump and his political fate.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] FlowVoid@lemmy.world 13 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Keep in mind that the SCOTUS majority have spent decades advocating the doctrine of "originalism".

Originalists think that the 14th means whatever the Reconstructionists who wrote it thought it meant. And it's abundantly clear that Reconstructionists did not intend to prosecute former Confederates but still wanted to keep them out of office.

If the SCOTUS majority ignores what Reconstructionists thought in order to help Trump, it would be like the Pope ignoring Catholic doctrine in order to help Trump. They can do it, but they know their legal theory will never be taken seriously again. And that's a big deal, since Justices are ultimately remembered for their legal theories.

[–] Nobody@lemmy.world 6 points 10 months ago (2 children)

True, but politics tends to put an asterisk by justices' rulings. In Bush v. Gore, the Ds were arguing states rights, while the Rs were arguing federal supremacy. Completely against their usual positions, but everyone knows why.

[–] FlowVoid@lemmy.world 5 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

States rights is associated with Republican elected politicians, but not so much the SCOTUS majority. There are many examples of Roberts et al ruling against states rights, in fact they recently sided against Texas in the state v federal border dispute. And they ruled against the independent state legislature theory last year.

Originalism, on the other hand, is near and dear to their hearts. They have basically never embraced another doctrine.

[–] Nobody@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Fair point, but if the vote goes 6-3 and the Rs ignore originalism entirely in their opinion, I don't think anyone would expect their adherence to the doctrine to change in the next case or any cases afterward. It'll go down in the history books as a politically-motivated outlier case, not dissimilar to Bush v. Gore.

[–] FlowVoid@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Sure, they would still adhere to originalism. But they would knowingly create a precedent where it doesn't apply. Future Justices are supposed to respect precedent, so this means handing future liberal courts a useful new tool to dismantle their contribution to legal theory.

Is saving Trump from himself worth ending their own legacy?

[–] Nobody@lemmy.world 5 points 10 months ago

I'd really like to think that these justices still care about things like legacy and consistency, but I'm not sure that's the case. I suppose we'll find out soon enough.

That, or they'll punt the ruling on some bullshit like waiting for Congress to act. That seems most likely at this point.

[–] Schadrach@lemmy.sdf.org 5 points 10 months ago

True, but politics tends to put an asterisk by justices’ rulings. In Bush v. Gore, the Ds were arguing states rights, while the Rs were arguing federal supremacy. Completely against their usual positions, but everyone knows why.

Bush v Gore came down to two things, and it's hard to find real fault with either.

The first is an Equal Protection claim - Gore wanted to recount certain parts of the state under different rules than the rest of the state was counted under. The argument was that doing so violated equal protection under the law and the entire state should be counted under one standard.

The other is that election deadlines are legal and enforceable. SCOTUS was actually really quick in handling Bush v Gore (Gore started his final recount on a Friday, injunction in less than 24 hours, oral arguments Monday, decision on Tuesday morning) and they still only released their opinion 2 hours before the deadline for election results to be certified.

Ironically, based on studies done by others after the election Gore still would have lost had his last recount been allowed to go through as planned (presuming he didn't demand further recounts after that), but he might potentially have narrowly won if the entire state were recounted under the standard he wanted to use, but that wasn't a recount he ever called for and it wasn't a recount that could realistically have been completed under the deadline.

You throw out election deadlines, and we'd have Trump still to this day trying to legally challenge Biden's election. You'll notice he stopped doing that in early December and switched to just being a bloviating blowhard trying to rile up his followers over it for that sweet, sweet scam money and maybe an off chance at a successful overthrow of the government that he ideally could plausibly deny if it went wrong.