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this post was submitted on 09 Feb 2024
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You too, seem to misunderstand the same thing that the Israeli team misunderstood. ~~Sweden~~ Ireland does not like what Israel is doing to the Palestinians. ~~Sweden~~ Ireland has nothing against Jews but does not like Israel's genocide on Palestine. There is a difference between the country and the religion and antisemitism is used for the religion alone.
It's like if you argue that you're getting downvoted because of antisemitism when you're actually being downvoted because you are wrong. It has nothing to do with religion
That's cool but we're talking about the Irish basketball team.
Sorry
And the Israeli basketball team is the one commiting genocide somehow?
By calling Ireland antisemites, for not liking what Israel is doing to Palestine, they are not really distancing themselves from it are they.
Were they calling Ireland anti semitic in general or were they calling the basketball team anti semitic? Because I think we both know that most of Ireland is pro Palestine and calling Irish people anti semitic for that would be outrageous, but do we know whether or not the statement about the basketball team has any proof to it?
I believe that this is the exact point of the article. The way I read it, the Irish team was facing pressure to not play the game due to Israel's actions and I believe that the comment from the Israeli player was pointed at this.
that's what's odd about it. The article says the reason the team didn't shake hands was because of 'wholly inaccurate accusations of antisemitism'. So does that mean they would have shaken hands if one of the israeli team members had not made that accusation? Or were they just looking for a reason? This is what seems odd to me. If we imagine Ireland playing against an african nation that is also torn by war and conflict. If one of their team members accused the irish team of racism, and as a consequence, the entire irish team refuses to shake hands with the African team because they are so offended by these accusations. That would be really weird. That's why I asked for more context.
That is incorrect. Anti-Judaism is the (much older) component of antisemitism that is used for religion alone. While it is wrong to say that any criticism against israel is antisemitic, it is equally wrong to say that criticizing Israel is never antisemitic. in some cases it is. Sadly many people refuse to have this discussion. Israel exists because of antisemitism, not the other way around.
You need to edit Wikipedia for you to be rigt
It says Jews not Isrealis and we're back to it being about religion and not the nationality
I don't. If you click on "Jews" on the wikipedia it says right in the beginning:
The jewish are a people. Many of them aren't even religious. Antisemitism created israel. and not the other way around.
Here another wikipedia article on distinguishing antisemitism and criticism of Israel.
It sounds like you are right, but I don't feel this is the way it's being used. Or maybe the world is moving towards a distinction and seperatuon of the two?
Also, what do you mean with Israel exists because of antisemitism?
Well I think the reality is really complex and intertwined. Jewish people live in Israel because, historically speaking, they aren't safe anywhere else. In this context here: It would be safe to say that the jewish player's ancestors sought refuge in Israel because they were not welcome in the country they previously lived in (That could be Germany, Russia, Yemen, Iran etc). Many of them had no other choice and for many, Israel was the only hope for a life in dignity and safety. Completely separating jewish identity and israeli identity is impossible, it is connected.
In a way I agree. The concept of anti-semitism is used when it is convenient. People are called anti-semites when they call out the war crimes commited by Israelis far right government, and likewise people categorically refuse to acknowledge that criticizing israel can be antisemitic. It is totally polarized, and people don't care about context anymore.
Zionism is a movement founded by european jews who have suffered from persecution for centuries. So they believe that to protect themselves from their oppression, they needed an own nation. Jews started to understand themselves as a people. And not to mention, The Shoa made millions of people seek refuge in Israel/Palestine after world war two. So in short, if anti-semitism wasn't a thing, the nation-state of Israel wouldn't even be an idea.
I hear this claim a lot. But in the view of the recent killing of over a thousand Israeli's this really doesn't seem to be true. Israel also constantly claim to be surrounded by hostile nations which would eradicate all of them given the chance. From this perspective countries like the US, while far from being free of antisemitism seem more safe for Jews than Israel.
The only thing Israelis in Israel are safe from, is antisemitism from the sate. But as we've seen the state has catastrophically failed to ensure the safety of their citizens. And they continue to make the whole situation worse and are currently ensuring that at least for one or two generations the hatred between Israel and Palestine will continue.
I guess that is the big tagedy. which leads a lot of israeli into very militant and isolationist positions. Defending autonomy and self determination at all costs. Which also causes a lot of suffering on other people.
Big tragedy is a pretty apt description of the whole fucking shit show in that conflict.