this post was submitted on 17 Feb 2024
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There are laws in place for service workers related to minimum wage. The employers have to make up the difference if tips don’t meet the rate for hours worked. It seems to me that’s not sufficient for the times.

Hypothetically, if everyone were to stop tipping in the U.S. would things be better or worse for workers? Would employers start paying workers more?

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[–] drmoose@lemmy.world 102 points 5 months ago (5 children)

Hot take but I think tipping culture is one of the main reasons why Americans are suffering from such large class issues.

In Japan tipping is offensive because it puts the customer above the server when it's a fair exchange between the two parties. It makes sense imo. For people to respect each profession it has to be treated like an equal value exchange. The server that brings my food is not my temporary slave but we have a social contract that they'll be hosting me as the representative of the restaurant and "forced donations" completely ruins this exchange. It's incredibly toxic.

[–] metallic_substance@lemmy.world 8 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

So, all of the general points you make about tipping culture are valid, but it's batshit crazy to say that it's "one of the main reasons why Americans are suffering from such large class issues." One of the main reasons? Are you fucking kidding?

[–] okamiueru@lemmy.world 7 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Don't be so hard on them. Consider that media is owned by private interests, and that's been their whole life. Unions are evil, worker rights are a privilege, and you wouldn't want to regulate or tax businesses if it means they would make less profit. They create the jobs, don't forget that. Nor should you tax private fortunes, that's already been taxed, even if it is actively used as collateral for loans and a mechanism to avoid income tax. On that topic... higher taxes on very high income is also unwise, because, you can avoid paying income tax by leveraging aforementioned loans, and that shouldn't be more inconvenient than it needs to be. Private ownership on necessities of life is also not a problem, especially when you have a legal obligation to maximise profit for stockowners, which I'm sure won't motivate higher health care prices, or motivate denial of coverage or reduced level of treatment. Same goes with housing being an investment. People got to live somewhere right? That's a business opportunity right there. Better not regulate that or tax that too much either.. Might reduce... value of housing... and you wouldn't just want anyone to get in on that.

Tipping culture is obviously one of the main reasons at fault here....

[–] RememberTheApollo@lemmy.world 3 points 5 months ago

The main reason is that it shifts payment of the wait staff to the customer, not the employer. That means the employer has less payroll, payroll tax, etc. and pockets the difference.

It’s a financial motive, not a classist one.

[–] bionicjoey@lemmy.ca 8 points 5 months ago

Hot take but I think tipping culture is one of the main reasons why Americans are suffering from such large class issues.

It's not a cause, it's a symptom

[–] gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works 4 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

It is definitely messed up, but it’s also the only reasonable way for people in a lot of more conservative states to make any money at all as service staff, because those states tend to have comically low base pay for servers because “they work for tips”.

It’s an intentionally self-perpetuating cycle that makes things more expensive for customers, and fails to pay the business’s workers what they deserve. It’s basically enhanced wage theft combined with a pricing structure that also intrinsically hides the fact that the business owner is also intentionally hiding something like 15-25% of their cost of business, and you get to make up the difference.

[–] kayaven@lemmy.world 2 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Can a customer give a tip to a waiter/waitress in case they deliver outstanding service? Because it might be seen wrongly in that case. I'm genuinely curious.

[–] drmoose@lemmy.world 4 points 5 months ago

I'm not Japanese but from my time there it seems like no, tips aren't acceptable unless there's some explicit mechanic like tip jar or some ritual. I did hear that long term customers tend to bring gifts on special occasions but I think that's almost never money.

[–] pruwybn@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

In Japan tipping is offensive because it puts the customer above the server

Saying they don't put the customer above the server in Japan sounds very wrong to me. Servers use highly polite language to customers, while customers generally act in a way that feels very dismissive to me as an American - e.g. yelling to no one in particular when you want service, saying nothing when a server brings food or drinks. This is my experience at least.

[–] drmoose@lemmy.world 2 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Complete opposite experience here. Customer experience in Japan is top notch except there's often too much ritual. For example buying electronics often involves like an hour long process as you pick up these cards that represent your items, take them to the cashier, pay, get a long 1 on 1 lesson and onboarding but at the same time it's what makes the process wholesome and respectful. Bars and restaurants in particular are super wholesome.

[–] udon@lemmy.world 4 points 5 months ago

Yes, the workers stick to the ritual but customers hardly care. People don't even greet the konbini workers or say thank you or anything that signals they deal with another human