760
Michigan governor says not voting for Biden over Gaza war ‘supports second Trump term’
(www.theguardian.com)
this post was submitted on 26 Feb 2024
760 points (94.5% liked)
politics
19090 readers
4046 users here now
Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!
Rules:
- Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.
Example:
- Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
- Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
- No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
- Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
- No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
That's all the rules!
Civic Links
• Congressional Awards Program
• Library of Congress Legislative Resources
• U.S. House of Representatives
Partnered Communities:
• News
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Both sides of the line support Israel. Either you’re saying it in bad faith or need to take your head out of the sand. Anti-Israel isn’t on the ballot. If you want a full fledge war in the Middle East, feel free to not vote Biden and give the GOP the conflict they’ve been wanting since the bush admin.
You’re confusing me. If I’m getting a genocide either way, then it doesn’t matter if I vote Biden or Trump.
Yes, you are confused, and you are also trying to confuse the issue with false equivalence. The outcomes of a Trump presidency and a Biden presidency are not going to be the same, either in the Middle East or more broadly.
So we can stop the genocide by voting for Biden? Which vote stops the genocide? Or, do we want the genocide, but not if Trump’s doing it? Or, do we not want the genocide, but it’s okay if Biden’s doing it? Or, is genocide bad regardless of who is President?
You are being obtuse intentionally, I assume, to make a point. Withdrawing support for Israel is not one of the options. Your choices are status quo or fascism. And if you choose not to choose, then you are still making a choice. Trump can be elected by a combination of active support and negligence on the part of those who could stop him.
write this down …
For some of us who have empathy, a genocide is more important than an election. Some nebulous, abstract, distant fever dream future, where Trump is president is immaterial to the actual current conditions in Palestine.
Hope that’s acute enough for you.
As I said, your preference is not one of the choices in the election.
Which is why some will vote 3rd party or abstain.
Which is actually a choice to help Trump win. Its a zero sum game where the winner takes all. Every vote NOT cast for Biden is potentially the vote that allows Trump to win, especially in swing districts. You can't stand above the fray or absolve yourself of blame by simply refusing to play the game.
So you stand with genocide?
OMG, you are hopeless.
To be clear, I don’t have a problem with that. It’s a difficult decision. I may vote for Biden depending on the next 8 months. But the constant bullying and brow beating from democrats of citizens who choose to vote their conscience is undemocratic and borderline authoritarian.
No, I meant you are hopelessly bad at logic. Your line: "Oh, so you stand with genocide" is right up there with the anti-abortionist's favorite line: "Oh, so you believe in killing babies". That kind of logic is characteristic of teenagers and religious fanatics.
I get it. You are looking for a "third way" to avoid an unpalatable choice. Unfortunately, being a responsible adult and a leader sometimes means having to choose from among less-than-ideal choices because not choosing is also a choice.
Fact: There is a genocide in Gaza.
Fact: Biden is funding that genocide.
Fact: A vote for Biden is a vote to continue the genocide.
Id est, you stand with genocide.
Fact: Politicians have positions on many different issues and you won't agree with all of them. Supporting a politician overall in a race doesn't mean you support every one of their positions.
Fact: Trump would be much worse for world (and Middle East) peace than Biden. The US sliding into fascism is just about the worst thing that could happen for democracy and human rights worldwide.
Fact: The US has a first-past-the-post two-party electoral system, which means that you can't avoid the choice between Trump and Biden, no matter how unpalatable that may be for you.
Fact: Choosing Biden over Trump doesn't mean you support genocide, because choosing Trump would lead to even more genocide. The choice is between less genocide or more genocide, not no-genocide. No matter which US President gets elected, there will still be genocide in China and elsewhere. But electing Trump gives a giant green light to even more genocide.
What is so difficult to understand about that?
Good luck negotiating a compromise with the evil that is genocide.
>Anti-Israel isn’t on the ballot.
pretty sure the anti war green party will have a candidate on your ballot
Not that has any chance of winning.
moving the goalposts indicates to me that you're not really engaging in good faith.
Show me a federal election that a green candidate has won. The goalposts haven’t been moved, they never were in a place where green could win in the first place.
you said it wasn't on the ballot. now you seem to understand it is on the ballot and are looking for an excuse not to vote against war.
There won’t be a question on the ballot asking if I’m for or against the war. So you clearly understand I wasn’t speaking literally and just chose to be pedantic. The Green Party will not win the Presidential election. Voting for them will get you close to the opposite of what you want. Literally.
>Voting for them will get you close to the opposite of what you want.
it will increase the number of votes for the candidate i want to win, so it will definitely get me closer to what i want. unlike voting for someone who i don't want to win.
That’s like saying moving your pawns closer to your opponent’s king is the right move because it gets closer to your goal. No strategy, No victory.
>There won’t be a question on the ballot asking if I’m for or against the war
someone is being pedantic, but it's not me.
Oh you’re a child, sorry.