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Alternate title: Michigan governor explains first past the post voting. People unhappy.
This is a primary. Voting for Biden won't make it less likely that Trump will be elected.
It's a fucking primary.
This is literally the only point in time we can try to drag Biden too the left, will we get him far enough that he stops being pro-genocide? Probably not, dude is all in on Israel and always has been.
But telling people they don't even get to vote "not committed" in a fucking meaningless primary is something so undemocratic if you told me it would happen this primary I'd have bet millions on it being republicans.
But then again, I'd have bet billions on them being the ones to pull delegates for something the state party had zero control over.
Not holding Dems to standards may have already fucked the country for good.
It’s a fucking primary
I don’t know why people don’t get this.
Since 2000 progressives have been told to vote for who you want in the primary and then hold your nose in the general.
Now we’re supposed to hold our nose in the primary, too?!
I don’t have enough clothespins for this bullshit.
Since 2000 progressives have been told to vote for who you want in the primary and then hold your nose in the general.
NH went progressive over party favorite moderate the last two primaries they had that counted...
So this party the DNC said their votes count for nothing, then Biden withdrew and threw money at a write in campaign so the headlines would be "Biden wins even as a write in!"
And not:
"DNC just made NH primary meaningless for something only NH republican officials could change!"
They know this is just a primary.
They're just conservatives deep down and give zero fucks lying and destroying democracy if they win. And it's not enough to win, they demand 100% loyalty.
Just like trumpers.
It's why Dem standards can't just be "better than a Republican".
Trump, the one who moved the US embassy would, if anything, support Israel even more aggressively than Biden.
It's so infuriating how difficult it is for people to understand this
There are also a large amount of people who understand this and are intentionally acting as if they don't. This is just this round's version of the 'walk away' people from previous elections.
He's good friends with and likely has donations from Netanyahu. And all Trump and the GOP have to do (as usual) is sit back and watch the left fight and destroy itself while the gop sit back and win.
Democrats are so damn stupid. Not a single one of your candidates and potential presidents is against Israel, none, so why make it an issue for this election?
Primaries are the place for protest votes. You want to send a message, send it now in the primary.
Come general election, it's time to shut up and protect the country.
Not just a second Trump term, but a second Trump term and continuation/acceleration of the genocide in Gaza. Not voting and letting Trump win with a razor thin margin in a swing state will not fix the problem. Between the two realistic choices, Biden is infinitely more likely to push Israel for a ceasefire, which is the best chance anybody has to get the situation under control.
I don't like our current system but I don't believe she is wrong. We have a two party system. Either the GOP or the DNC candidate will take the electoral college.
I hate that we are still voting against something. The Democrats need to run a candidate that we WANT to vote for (like Obama was imo) but we aren't there in this election so we can either protest and vote 3rd party, vote for Trump, or vote for Biden.
Not only that, but it effectively does nothing as Trump will support Israel as well.
It's a primary...
What they're hoping it will do is show the party and Biden that his actions don't follow the value of Dem voters.
The goal is for him to shape up so he doesn't depress turnout and let's trump wins like when he ran against Hillary.
Ignoring the problem and letting the media keep calling Biden "most progressive president yet" will disenfranchise Dems and hurt turnout.
Dem voters aren't Republican voters. Fear isn't enough to motivate them, it works on conservatives because they're statistically likely to have a larger amygdala. Liberals (actual liberals) are more likely to have increased frontal lobe activity that handles empathy and critical thinking.
The main problem is neoliberals are essentially conservatives. They may vote D, but they think like Rs. And without that critical thinking and empathy, they assume everyone else is like them. Like Republicans do.
The result is actual liberals look at both parties, and realize it's not a good thing the same type of people are now running the only two options. Especially when the donations are coming from the same place.
AIPAC for example. They're funding Biden and Republicans who say Trump won, while attacking Dem incumbents who are against genocide.
Because all AIPAC cares about us Israel. They dont give two shits about Biden or America.
I will vote for Biden in the General Election, but I will not stop speaking out about the Genocide in Palestine. We can put a stop to this, now. We don't have to wait for the election, we don't want to let Netanyahu handle this situation in the slightest.
You have to put pressure on Biden because it could make a difference. There would be no convincing Trump. Israel has utterly failed this challenge. Netanyahu has proven himself beyond any reasonable doubt to be a criminal.
Objectively correct take.
You can validly hate Biden for the handling of Gaza. But not voting for him is just helping the Fascists win.
Swallow your pride. Do your duty at the ballot and then make the real changes by organising and protests.
I mean she's right. If you register a protest vote against Biden you need to accept the moral liability of helping Trump. There really isn't any additional conversation here. You can write a million words about how you are making the perfect the enemy of the good, and none of it will change the very simple cause and effect of a protest vote.
Every time people are saying they will vote third party in the general, I argue that it's important to vote for the best viable candidate, and the time to vote against a Democrat they don't like is in the primaries. When people start saying no, you can't even vote against the party leadership's chosen candidate in a primary, what do you think they're going to do? BS antidemocratic rhetoric like that is exactly what is most likely to get us another Trump presidency. We start down that road and we can kiss democracy goodbye for good.
Maybe vote uncommitted in primary for pressure since that has literally no effect on the main election?
Voting uncommitted is a fine thing to do during the primary. It shows the party that people are displeased with how the government is handling the Gaza situation.
Sitting out an election in Michigan is a bad idea. If you're in a safe state, go wild. Just not Michigan.
As an outsider looking in, it feels really odd that this could even be a firm issue for any voter. Like that high horse sailed so long ago, how can you possibly blame the current president for what has been a national policy for 75 years?
Sure, push for a candidate that doesn't support Israel and dissent as much as you can. But every time I read a comment about "Genocide Joe" it screams Russian propaganda farm.
I feel like this is just another division tactic to split the vote to favor Republicans.
I have friends who were rabidly for Democrats and their agenda for decades, decrying single issue conservative voters, now acting the same way toward Biden over Gaza as if he single handedly orchestrated this and didn't inherit years of foreign policy.
I fucking hate what's happening there and don't want to support it in any way, but my vote doesn't change what's already established and the alternative is so much worse.
I keep asking for a viable alternative and all I get is vote third party or stay home which solves exactly nothing.
Now, if the Democrats had picked someone who actually supported popular Democratic positions, there wouldn't now be a massive chasm between him and their base on various burning issues they now have to bridge during what may, ironically, in fact be one of the more important elections of our lifetimes.
Democrats don't pick their candidates, the wealthy donors and senior members do. Which is why we always end up with a centrist and empty promises. Money in politics is a cancer.
Voting for Biden cause he's least worst fucking sucks. Dems need to do better, and Trump is what happens because they won't.
Trying to get a progressive agenda by only thinking about the Presidency is like trying to win a game with only hail Marys. We need to focus on smaller races in house and build up from there. It would be a stronger and longer lasting change. Even if you're in an area that doesn't have any competitive progressives running in the primary, you are allowed to volunteer to help progressive candidates in areas that do.
Gonna cut her some slack since the last time trump was president his sycophants almost kidnapped and executed her.
I heard a pro Palestine rally in Sacramento and the dude on the bull horn was like "Let's make sure Biden doesn't get re-elected because he supports Israel" and everyone walking by was like "Yeah right, sure and let Trump win?! You know Trump loves Israel too right?".
There is a non-zero chance that some "pro-Palestine" rallies are orchestrated by right-wing bad actors that are trying to convince centrists and leftists to not vote because of "gEnOcIdE jOe!" Even though there really is no nuance to the Israel/Palestine conflict any longer, somehow conservatives made preserving human life a political statement.
She's not wrong, but I'm not sure this strategy is going to work. Biden is at risk of losing Michigan because of his support of Israel, and I think people are going to be swayed by a, "better than the other guy," argument on that issue. You can argue that economically, even if Biden is not as progressive as you'd like, he will govern in a manner closer to your beliefs than Trump. Trump is even more hostile to the Palestinians than Biden, but if Biden is supplying Israel with unconditional military aid while defunding UNRWA, it will be hard to claim that he's different in any practical way. If the democrats are worried about Michigan, they should be trying to push Biden to do something meaningful, like restoring humanitarian aid to Gaza, not scolding their voters.
This whole gaza fiasco very well could put trump in the presidential seat again, even though he should be barred as it is stated in the 14th amendment. Yet it doesnt seem to bother biden or the dnc, this is such a clear example of why people think both parties are the same, because if liberals want to be the good guys then they shouldnt be condoning israels mass slaughtering of the people of gaza.
If shes so concerned about people turning on Biden, maybe she needs to head to the oval office and tell him to stop fucking funding and equiping a goddamn genocide.
Cause one thing you forget, Democrats are not cultists. We will not tie ourselves into knots trying to defend your bullshit. We will call out, and criticize you when its appropriate.
and supporting and equiping a fucking genocide is a pretty goddamn appropriate thing to be criticizing Biden on.
Its not on the voters to get over it.
Its on Biden to stop fucking doing it and to tell Israel to fuck off.
Is Israel apartheid and slaughtering the Palestinians really so important that you'd throw away the election for?
She couldn't be more wrong. Not voting for Biden will show him what he could lose in the General. Primaries are the more important than the general in this way.
Then run a fucking better candidate. Biden is actively ignoring the will of his constituents. He didn't win because he's likeable or desired, he won because Trump generates negative voter turnout. Imagine if the DNC actually ran someone people were enthusiastic about--they might actually get a fucking landslide.
On the one hand, this is true, you gotta vote for the lesser of two evils.
But also, there are only two candidates.
So now it's this shitty situation where US voters just have to vote Biden no matter what, he can do anything and there will never be consequences electorally. And i really feel like there should be consequences for supporting a genocide.