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this post was submitted on 09 Mar 2024
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No Stupid Questions
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I'm gonna guess that "Quite the opposite; I have very strong morals. This however icludes things like not lying which means that I always speak the truth and not everyone likes hearing it. I don't follow many of the social norms expected of me."
is the reason for this
"A person recently said to me that they sometimes feel gaslighted around me because I so effortlesly make them question their own beliefs and feelings."
It's good to remember that most of our society is based on lying, and that most people prefer someone nice, rather than someone honest.
I try to identify those people fast to keep away from them.
Honestly it's almost impossible for me to think of someone who isn't like that. Have you found people who aren't..?
Nobody likes the bad kind of “honest” where someone is constantly an asshole for no reason, then hides behind “well would you rather I lie about my hatefulness?” as though it’s the honesty that people dislike rather than the views they’re being honest about.
But plenty of people appreciate honesty from those who also happen to be otherwise good people.
That isn't honesty, that is being a bully with an excuse. Those people tend to be inconsistent enough that it becomes clear they are not even being honest.
Agreed, but they call it honesty, so when someone says they’ve never encountered a single person who appreciates their honesty, it’s my first suspicion.
That might reflect on you just as much as the people you're suspicious of. What I'm talking about is that someone can ask your honest opinion, you break it to them as gently as you can, and they are obviously crushed by it. There are other varieties of it too, but that's the one that sucks the most and illustrates that honesty is just not really what most people want if it's at all a difficult truth.
If you want to play the "I know you're a shitty person by one comment on the internet" game, go ahead.
Something being my first suspicion is quite different from it being a knowledge claim.
Not sure why you needed to express it if there wasn't an implication
I can think of only three people I have ever known out of the thousands of people that I have interacted with in my lifetime that actually preferred honesty over politeness.
I prefer honesty.
This is a cultural value, fyi. You might enjoy another culture more if that’s an option for you.
I’m an immigrant in Germany studying to be a German teacher for new immigrants. As part of our curriculum, we were given this question to answer for ourselves and share with the group (about 80% German, with one each South American, North American, and Russian student, plus five Asian students, in grad school):
The Asian and Russian students wouldn’t address it; the American students would say that it was very cool that she’d actually made her own clothing, which they both believed would be true, if oblique; and the German students would tell her it didn’t look good, though about half would also try to find something they did like about it (fit or color or knit pattern) to compliment as well.
That’s a tiny sample size, obviously, but it was interesting to me and I found it completely insane that some Germans would just tell their roommate that they didn’t like her sweater. My old roommate told me he thought my lipstick was too dark on my wedding day when I was showing him pictures several weeks later, though. Unfortunately the class came afterwards and I was very annoyed with him at the time. I still kind of am, but I’m trying to be culturally accepting 😅
Yeah I kind of feel that way too. People will even say they want the truth but they often don't. I even fall into that category sometimes though I generally think I would much prefer the truth. I kind of get it, the truth is really hard to deal with sometimes. But I can't understand always putting it behind "being nice".
I have learned to not volunteer anything that is less that gushing praise if someone doesn't ask first. I also don't ask questions where I might not like a negative response, although that hasn't even come up in a few years as my ability to take and process criticism is pretty solid.
I'm autistic and have much better luck finding "plain" conversation with other autistic people. No idea I'd you are or aren't but you'll welcome to join the community of you aren't a bullshitter.
It can be a little weird to get used to because the whole world lies, but man, is it refreshing once you do and have the trust/rapport to just speak plainly with friends.
I appreciate this response. I'm not autistic but sometimes I have thought I could be on the spectrum. Nothing diagnosed yet though. I have commented and lurked in that community here and have sometimes felt like I have some things in common with y'all. Have a great evening.
Me. If I found out that you're being nice but dishonest, I'll cut my interactions with you almost immediately, and the ones I'm forced to have will be minimal and devoid of any personal information, as you have proven not to be trusthworthy.
Depends. Are they nice before they're honest? Or are they nice while also being honest?
They aren't mutually exclusive labels, so you might just be a positive person that doesn't pick up on nefarious clues so well and thusly aren't going to recognize the kind of casual dishonesty being referenced here.
I think you may be assuming gaslighting is something only done by the wicked. Some "nice" people, who I think they're referencing, will be "nice" in incredibly cruel ways. Those are the people to avoid. People who will call you "friend" and be friendly, but then not even mention or invite you to their wedding, or ghost YOU over drama in their life ... all forms of people running friendships dishonestly while still putting a "nice" front on is what I think of when I hear bad nice guy. There are A LOT of them depending on what social circles you roam; people jockying for social status using kind words without kind action.
Yes, people universally like "nice" people, but not all "nice" people are good people.
While people can be polite and honest, it is clear that they are talking about someone who cares far more about one than the other.
I know, I'm just trying to describe the type of person who is nice but not good, since they said they cannot think of someone like that.
The times that I have to tell someone the uncomfortable truth happens far less often that you'd think. Many of the white lies we tell are completely unecessary.
Hmm, you say they’re unnecessary, and yet you are in a situation where people say they’re uncomfortable around you…
If you don’t bother with white lies and think that goes down okay, then maybe the other person is pretending they’re okay with it when it does actually bother them.
So they’re then telling a white lie of their own to spare your feelings, or just because they want to move on from the subject.