this post was submitted on 19 Mar 2024
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What is your solution the massively disproportionate representation in the senate then? There are currently around 66.7 Californians for every Wyomingite. Do you think Wyomingites deserve 66.7 times the representation in the Senate? And yes, legalization would occur with reasonable regulations which would make sure the industry is safer for all those involved. I tried to keep the list as concise as possible for each issue reformed.
Do you think wyoming deserves to be a state? Every state gets the same representation in the Senate and I think that's fair. I don't think it's fair that the proportional side of the legislature isn't proportional anymore, though, and fixing that goes a very long way.
States don't deserve equal representation. American citizens deserve equal representation, they are the ones who create value.
Then what you’re really saying is abolish the concept of states and have a single federal state.
No, states still would elect a number of representatives based on their population. Just no 2 senators per state.
Why even have states? Good way to get rid of jerrymandering would be to get rid of imaginary borders. No states, no senate necessary.
Something something…. Redraw state lines every 10 years…
Because state legislatures should continue to exist. If less populated conservative states want to go down a rabbit hole of far right shit then let them. Just don't give them 2 senators per state to gridlock the states that continue to produce and provide for their population.
Then there is no point in having states.
That is what is referred to as a false dilemma fallacy. You can have states and state legislatures without the senate.
First time I’m hearing about that fallacy, but it seems to imply deceptive intent which I have none. You can also have machine screws in your peanut butter sandwich but it doesn’t mean it makes sense.
Nope, it's simply an instance of an argument which erroneously limits what options are available.
Why do you think the states govts should continue to exist if they do not have a direct voice at the Federal level?
Because states would still get a voice at the Federal level with the House, not directly and disproportionately, but rather through their population who are the ones who create value.
The house is representation of the people. The senate is the voice of the states. E.g. senate ratifies treaties.
The Senate isn't intended to be a representative body, it's just two per state. They aren't doing things like setting funding/budgets. Congress (the house of representatives) is designed to do that, though that needs some tweaking.
Both the house and senate vote to pass bills. The disproportionate population increases have led to less representation of citizens in more populated states.
But the original states didn't have balanced populations, the founders knew that, but they still set it to be two senators per state. The house is scaled by population.
They did that for as part of a negotiation though. The less populous states refused to join the union without something like the Senate.
To me it's an outdated concept because states are much less independent now than they were back then. And we have a national identity that didn't exist during the revolution.
There are other proposals to solve the Senate's disproportionate nature, such as apportioning Senate seats by state population. Most proposals I've seen for that would leave the Senate with a little more than a hundred seats (with a minimum of 1 seat per state), which would (mostly) solve the problem and make it closer to the house in terms of proportionality. Of course, it all depends on the exact implementation.
What's the purpose of the senate at that point? Seems redundant, like having two house of representatives.
That is in fact the point. It's about checks and balances to stop bad actors from completely changing all of the rules the moment their party is in power. Of course, that's completely pointless in a 2 Party system anyways and we should really reform campaign finance and election laws surrounding how to get on the ballot.
The point of the Senate is that it's a more deliberative body, representing larger numbers of people, which serves to moderate the power of the House. Mind you, Congress as a whole was more powerful when the nation was founded; they've handed off power to the executive over the years, for better or worse (really, a bit of both). The House was also intended to grow with the population, and if we'd followed the general guidelines for growth the Founders suggested, we'd have a House with more than 600 members. The number of seats was capped ~90 years ago, because Congress didn't want to fund another renovation of the capitol building to fit more people. Also keep in mind that the States had a more uniform population distribution when the country was founded. You didn't have California and Nebraska sitting with orders of magnitude of difference between them, so the difference in representation in the Senate was not nearly as significant as it is today.
Wether we need a secondary deliberative body in the legislature or not is a matter of debate and opinion. I can see why you'd want one, but I can also understand why people would think it's not useful anymore.
There's no solution needed, since there isn't a problem to begin with. Individuals (should) have proportional representation in the House, and states have proportional representation in the Senate, which is how it should be.
Yes.
This is funny, it's like an self soothing mantra. I'll try to repeat this to myself as things get worse.
To be fair, Congress wouldn't be so inept if it weren't for the filibuster, which was never intended to be abused the way it is now. I'd be somewhat ok with the Senate if filibusters only required a simple majority to break again.
Beyond what you've stated about the disproportionate nature of the Senate, what exact legislative problems are you attributing to the existence of the Senate, and its disproportionate nature? And why do you think a purely proportional body will solve said issues? I'm also curious what you believe the purpose of the Senate, or a bicameral legislature in general, is.
I'm not trying to be accusatory in my probing, I'm simply curious what your exact rationale is ☺️.
The senate exists to maintain an artificial balance and make sure that only the approved things are actually voted on. That is why popular things like marijuana legalization are never voted on.
What do you mean by "artifical balance"?
What do you mean, exactly? Bills are debated as they are presented [See 7.6 and 8.1 of the Senate Manual].
I don't understand this point. If you want a senator to introduce a bill regarding the legalization of marijuana, then vote in a senator that will present such a bill.
Yup, you don't.
🤡
Okay, well, would you mind providing clarification/context/sources for your claim?
? Do you disagree with that statement? If so, then why?