traaaaaaannnnnnnnnns
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my two cents i guess
as a tme trans person with some passing familiarity in this discourse i don’t feel particularly offended by these kinds of comments because I know that because of transmisogyny i have structural privilege over tma trans people. so a transfemme making a snarky comment about trans men or afab gq people, even if it dips into some unideal “invalidating gender” territory, isn’t nearly on the same level as the violent transmisogyny that gets perpetrated from those groups.i’ve yet to read whipping girl which is on my reading list but i think serano discusses the divide between tme/tma trans people a bit too. ultimately i think it’s more important for us tme trans people to deal with transmisogyny in our communities first, because these kinds of comments are just a reaction to the dynamics of unrecognized privilege and violent exclusion in these transmisogynistic trans spaces. idk, just my thoughts though and i don’t want to invalidate your experience with nevada especially as I haven’t read it.
lfg!!!
Hi, I welcome any thoughts on this subject!I'm glad at least to see that the quotes aren't that offensive to their targets, lol. I agree that it's nothing like the violent transmisogyny we experience, to me I guess it's about yet more divisive shit in the trans community, and also maybe that anger could be directed at dogshit cis people who commit the vast majority of that violent transmisogyny, instead of our comrades? It seems kind of bastardy to be bitterly invalidating people's genders instead? Down with cis? Just spitballing, Idk. I don't disagree with your comment overall, I appreciate the alternate view actually. Doesn't invalidate my experience :)
Man I still gotta read Whipping Girl, look at me being a genderlib and not reading theory!
more book more book
Oh! I just remembered!These last two comments reminded me about a specific part of Whipping Girl that I think can elaborate a bit on the kind of thinking that informed Imogen Binnie and possibly led to these views.
In the last chapter of Whipping Girl, Serano touches on the topic of subversivism within the feminist movements of the time (90s to the early 10's).
There's quite a bit more than what I've put below, but I remember feeling conflicted when I first finished this chapter. Obviously today definitions have changed and the idea of political lesbians and genderqueer identities has shifted. I wanted to understand more after finishing the book in regards to this topic but the trans spaces I looked in were severely lacking in even basic transmisogyny discussion, so I had no hope of finding more on it.
spoiler Passages attached
Unending bookposting!
Oooooh look at this ✨ holy shit it's incredible... You know...Now I think about it, Kieran and Maria kind of play this silly dichotomy out exactly, that must be intentional I suppose. But yes, I can see the whole-ass roots of Nevada's weirdo takes right here, I feel like I put on the shades from They Live
this is fuckin awesome. Take a shot every time bad actors in the trans community recreate a gender binary. I know what "oppositional sexism" is! Kinda scuffed, again, claiming that non-binary gender identities are "on top", like even just today I've watched a nonbinary person get conversationally trodden upon by binary trans women, what horseshit.
I do actually find it kind of fascinating that Serano takes it back to queer unity though, that's very interesting. But uh
What does this mean, lol. Please do not tell me that cissies have been stealing our language behind my back??? I beg of you... "Gender libertarianism" is fucking hilarious though. But this whole thing is fascinating, dang. I have been enlightened, and it turns out the solution was just to read theory all along!!! It almost reads like Maria misread Whipping Girl now, lol
no gender-libs
So this is one of those parts that Serano intentionally left unchanged in later editions and Whipping Girl's age becomes apparent again. Serano herself, and from what I gather- queer activism of the time, made the distinction between Transgender and MTF identities (MTF being anyone born male that displays exceptional feminine traits, qualities, or behaviors but can identify as their assigned gender or otherwise. Transgender being anybody who displays exceptional cross-gender traits, qualities, or behaviors but can identify as their assigned gender or otherwise) and Transs*xuals. (Essentially what we acknowledge today as transgender, meaning someone who identifies with a gender that's incongruent with their assigned gender.)
I'll attach a passage at the end where she goes into it a bit as well.
In this passage Serano is saying that cissexual genderqueers (meaning cissexuals who identify as genderqueer due to politics or potentially people who do not feel within the gender binary but also do not identify with transs*xuals.) had a tendency to speak for trans individuals while not entirely being affected by the same societal systems and pressures.
I feel like I explained it badly but the messiness is a product of the age of the text I think.
also i'll just attach a link to the book to make it easier to look up if you need to. spoiler passage
:::
haha...
...okay that's really strange, huh. That's not a definition I've ever heard of in my life and it doesn't make any sense to me, not a word of it. So needlessly complicated and weird, thank fuck I was not on trans internet in 2007 because wtf.I see, are there really "political genderqueers"? Huh, now I don't understand anything anymore![emoji blob-no-thoughts blob-no-thoughts](https://www.hexbear.net/pictrs/image/1ef20b55-8fcc-4ed6-8fa2-57d4faa6b6a6.png)
Is... the entire book steeped in ridiculous crusty terminology like this? A crisis, I wonder if I read Gender Outlaw wrong by not having this bizarro definition of "transgender" in mind. Maybe I am a lib.
spoiler
I imagine that there were at the time in the same way there were political lesbians. Their existence would connect back with subversivism and the desire to 'break the gender binary'.
Unfortunately it's definitely spread throughout the book, but Serano does well to front-load the definitions. She goes into it a bit in the 2nd editions preface.
http://juliaserano.blogspot.com/2016/04/excerpt-from-whipping-girl-second.html
spoiler
I'll make sure to snag the second edition then, huh... these weirdo definitions are all new to me.spoiler
There's actually a third edition now! It just came out last month and she included an extended afterword where she goes into the "basic biology" argument as well as the topic of "trans grooming."spoiler
Oh awesome, very nice, an update for new kinds of suck!