this post was submitted on 25 Apr 2024
258 points (100.0% liked)

memes

22779 readers
332 users here now

dank memes

Rules:

  1. All posts must be memes and follow a general meme setup.

  2. No unedited webcomics.

  3. Someone saying something funny or cringe on twitter/tumblr/reddit/etc. is not a meme. Post that stuff in /c/slop

  4. Va*sh posting is haram and will be removed.

  5. Follow the code of conduct.

  6. Tag OC at the end of your title and we'll probably pin it for a while if we see it.

  7. Recent reposts might be removed.

  8. Tagging OC with the hexbear watermark is praxis.

  9. No anti-natalism memes. See: Eco-fascism Primer

founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS
 
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] AOCapitulator@hexbear.net 10 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (4 children)

Nah, this is a fine thing to do and I support it heartily!

Especially recommend stuff like this when reading theory, Lenin likes to call dudes out by name and hyper specific organizations and membership etc, when those details don't really matter much for my purposes reading this 120 years later

Ive never actually gone in and replaced names, but I kind of glance at them and go "this is guy 1" and move on

Or more specifically like "opportunist leader of anti-bolshevik faction guy" etc etc. It's really not worth remembering every single name

Also, some people find remembering names hard, let alone unfamiliar ones

This is however still a funny post lol

[–] DerEwigeAtheist@hexbear.net 10 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (2 children)

A novel is not a piece of political theory. The aims are different, also russian naming conventions are more complex than english ones.

Also I believe on should try and actually engage with the cultural context of a piece of art(the novel) and not just to actively remove it. Why read russian literature then?

[–] ToxicDivinity@hexbear.net 3 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Different people struggle with different things. Everyone's different

[–] DerEwigeAtheist@hexbear.net 7 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

Engaging with the cultural context of a classic novel is part of reading it. Of course it can be difficult, but it is a russian piece of literature. It is an integral part of what it is, on a conceptual level. If you take that away you have a fundamentally different work. What's the poin then? This is not about ability, at least I don't think so, there is a glossary is there after all(in the better translations at least).

Like, I agree, fuck the names of obscure political groups from a hundred years ago. Outside of specific contexts they are generally not needed for understanding the theory. But theory is not a narrative novel.

[–] ToxicDivinity@hexbear.net 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

If you take that away you have a fundamentally different work. What's the poin then?

You're already reading a translation. You're already reading a fundamentally different work

I agree that it's good to try to understand things that are foreign to you but if that's too difficult then do whatever works best for you it's not a big deal

[–] DerEwigeAtheist@hexbear.net 3 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

What tge person in the post there is doing isn't working. Replacing the names in a way that still provides the same context(which is your proposal) would need you to understand exactly why each name is used each time, it is more exhausting than just learning the names. The translation also left the names in place, they didn't try to translate it, because that is a ludicrous idea. I am not sure it is possible.

[–] AOCapitulator@hexbear.net 1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

We don't think thats working either for the guy in the post

[–] DerEwigeAtheist@hexbear.net 2 points 6 months ago

Yeah, I spent too many words to say "This is a bad idea, don't do it" tbh

[–] AOCapitulator@hexbear.net 3 points 6 months ago (1 children)

of course they should try I'm not sayin otherwise, but if its this or just not experiencing the work at all, I mean

[–] DerEwigeAtheist@hexbear.net 1 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

How are you going to edit the name usage out of a book exactly? It has a meaning, you can't replace it at all, really. It's not context you can provide otherwise.

[–] AOCapitulator@hexbear.net 1 points 6 months ago

I'm not saying edit it, in my other comment I explained what I mean

[–] CTHlurker@hexbear.net 8 points 6 months ago (1 children)

In the Lenin texts I just sort of gloss over those names. Like you said, those people are long dead and their orgs have been dead and buried since before the russian civil war.

[–] DerEwigeAtheist@hexbear.net 7 points 6 months ago

It's nice for historical purposes though, exact sourcing is just very good praxis, when writing any theory.

[–] queermunist@lemmy.ml 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

All I know is Kautsky is a fuck

[–] AOCapitulator@hexbear.net 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Is that the guy? I've been trying to remember who I called "asshole guy" post 1918

[–] queermunist@lemmy.ml 2 points 6 months ago

Yeah, he's the brain genius that came up with super-imperialism i.e. the late stage of imperialism which creates world peace through cartelisation of the world powers into a one-world imperial cartel, the same way the banks and industry formed cartels to maximize profits.

[–] naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 6 months ago

Yeah whatever makes reading more widely more accessible to people seems good.

Even when I'm reading stuff originally written in English it's not like I'm paying enormous attention to names. If you're not subvocalising names are sort of start letter-end letter-length-shape tags.

I really appreciate it when authors include dramatis personae anyway. Helps if you get busy and need to put a book down, it also means authors don't have to exposition in every new character which can kill pacing in complex stories.