this post was submitted on 08 Jul 2024
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As a South American who had to choose between right and extreme right, being a leftist, I completely understand the frustration about voting Biden. And what's more, agree completely he does not deserve to be voted. But, in order to defeat fascism and with all other cards now played, Biden is the lesser of two evils and taking the moral high ground could result on fascism taking over the USA. I suggest voting for Biden. My two cents...
He's not the lesser of two evils. Cut this horseshit rhetoric. Biden has done a good job. No-one is perfect but calling him evil is just right wing propaganda both sides bullshit.
Trump is evil. If you want to see evil, vote Trump.
several hundred years ago we had the choice between electing a slaveowner that fucked his slaves vs a slaveowner that didn't fuck his slaves. Now we get to pick between a genocidal warmonger bent on keeping us all in debt servitude that is pro trans rights vs a genocidal dictatorship that is against trans rights.
Biden sucks ass, stop gaslighting us if you want us to vote for your shithead
When did Biden support genocide?
Failing to do enough to immediately prevent an entirely separate foreign government from conducting its own genocide does not count.
It's the bypassing congress to make sure the settler occupation gets their bombs
Why would Israel have a hard time getting munitions from any other first-world country, especially when they have the excuse of getting attacked by terrorists?
goalpost moved
Withholding munitions from Israel doesn’t stop the genocide. I’m keeping that end goal in mind.
Maybe we should stop sending weapons to Ukraine since they're going to be able to buy them from someone else
Withdrawing support for either country doesn’t do anything good for us. It keeps friends with them, and both are fighting terrorists.
Israel, unlike Ukraine, happens to also be incurring civilian casualties - lots of them. By being the one they work with, we get to set terms of delivering aid and limited attack responses, things China or Russia likely wouldn’t care about. It works, to some small degree - they limited their attack response to Iran based on Biden’s threat.
You can disagree with the policy as being ineffective. But I’d say, first, propose an alternative - one that actually reduces death, not just wiped out hands of it. Second, stop labeling it “support” for the genocide. At worst, it’s a failure to convince other people to stop it.
there's the real disagreement.
It's so funny how the US is capable of stopping Russia in its own backyard for 2 years, yet incapable of reigning in its own satellite after almost a year of them indiscriminately killing civilians
What are you talking about? The US hasn’t stopped Russia, and Ukraine still suffers because of them.
War is extremely difficult, especially when trying to minimize damage to innocent people.
What do you mean, all the propaganda for the last 2 years has been that Putin was stopped by the US weapons and the counteroffensive. Surely you aren't questioning the ability of the US to deliver on its promises.
Anyway if the US has that power, cutting off weapons to a genocide should be easy by comparison.
What are you talking about? Who gave what propaganda to whom?
As near as I can tell your thesis is that the US is so weak and ineffective that Biden should not be blamed for arming a genocide against a captive population by a settler occupation, as they would have been able to get weapons from somewhere else. Is that wrong?
DO you think they aren't benefiting from the aircraft carrier battle group protecting their shipping lanes, or is that also something they could easily outsource too? Why do we even have a military if its this ineffective geopolitically in your eyes?
A coalition of all first world governments in the world is also incapable of stopping internal wars, so the phrase “weak and ineffective” is sorely exaggerated to me. The USA has been constantly condemned through history for acting as the “World Police”, so they now limit all direct military intervention.
Your comment on the navy is a non sequitor. No one is talking about outsourcing. More importantly, you’re still not suggesting a solution.
I am suggesting a solution, tell the settlers that they're on their own, pull the stupid aircraft carriers out of the red sea/med, and let them work it out with their neighbors on their own. Maybe pre-emptively strike the Israeli nuclear facilities before they do anything stupid.
So are they too weak or too strong to do something?
A made up genocide in the balkans is enough for NATO allies to bomb innocent people for months, but close to two million people getting systematically exterminated is too 'world police-y' for you??
Are you seriously saying that wokeness is somehow restraining American actions? Is that why the US just has to stand idly by and continue arming a genocide?
They literally built a pier that was only really used for the settlers to base operations from for their massacre operations
If I was american I'd obviously be voting for Biden, but ignoring or denying that he's supporting the genocide currently being undertaken by the Israeli government doesn't make him look better.
Of course, Trump would support it too, hence the obviously.
I understand where are you coming from. But you honestly believe that a person that enables genocide abroad isn't evil?
By your logic, every leader of a 1st world country for the last several decades is evil.
I have this conversation every single time I open up lemmy these days..
Biden isn't enabling a genocide. If the US completely stopped sending anything to Israel, Israel would still be conducting this genocide. Netanyahu said so himself. Israel generates its own war supplies and exports its excess.
The only thing that would change is the US would lose the influence it has left in the middle east and some other (likely hostile) nation would scoop up that spot. That's the real reason the US is still party to this.
Everyone who believes Biden is evil because they think he has a magic genocide-off button on his desk isn't paying attention.
They are, unironically
The US is one of only a few countries that have voted against the last two UN resolutions. You're not wrong, but the US government is a special type of evil.
Both the Biden and Trump regimes have also opposed separate UN resolutions against condemning the glorification of Nazism
I'm not saying they aren't. I'm saying that taking the moral high ground by relinquishing your vote to choose between a number of leaders because you don't want to vote for someone "evil" means that you are disqualifying yourself from every major election almost everywhere by default.
That's an enormously stupid take.
Who's been blocking the last two UN resolutions on a ceasefire? Who's been bypassing congress to arm a genocidal settler state? I'm sure Trump would also do this, maybe worse, but stop trying to pretend your corpse emperors shit doesn't stink
🙄 Way to miss the point.
Do you understand that it's possible to hold the belief that what the US is doing with Israel is wrong and also realize that the US can't independently stop it from happening?
Did you read what I typed or not? The reason the US is still in this is their influence in the middle east. I'm not arguing that corpse-emperor is almighty and correct, I'm saying that geopolitics is a thing.
If we can't have an actual discussion about this without you putting words in my mouth to paint it like I support that, then I guess this conversation ends here.
I'm reading what you typed, you're just wrong and appear to have a tenuous grip on reality so I'm fine to stop talking here too.
Sure, that's what it is.
Anyway, here's some reading material for you in the form of relevant discussion backing up most of what I said. You might learn something.
Although something makes me think you won't come to understand the overall picture mostly by choice, since you seem to be stuck on your hate boner for Biden.
In my experience, it's the people who accuse other people of having a tenuous grip on reality who tend to be extremely rigid in their own biases and are afraid to challenge them.
So have fun with that. Later.
That's a lot of words to claim that a global superpower is somehow unable to bring its dog to heel.
Have fun defending genocide to someone who will believe you.
I understand and agree. But being complicit and helping the genocide (and basically enabling it by not saying it is one out loud) could be considered evil.
Now, Biden may not be evil. But it's foreign policy in this regard might be.
Still, the genocide will be carried out. But enabling it does not help. And I say it again. If Biden is evil, it does not matter. It is better than Trump. You do not need to portray him in a good light. He just needs to be supported more than Trump. Vote Biden.
We Argentinians elected a fascist as president. I can and would have got behind the right if it meant stopping this pos.
Say it louder for the people in the back!
Biden is presiding over the most progressive/liberal administration in U.S. history. That doesn't mean it's liberal enough but it sure as hell beats any previous administration by a mile.
I wish Americans had enough of a heart to give your average Palestinian the same benefit of the doubt as Strom Thurmond's best friend.