franchise killer
Ouch.
They give John Wick the perfect ending and now they are going to have to throw cash at Keanu to save their "franchise".
If they'd really wanted to continue the films, they could have just got Donnie Yen back.
this post was submitted on 20 Jul 2024
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So many cool characters from the John Wick universe - especially Donny Yen's character - and they still couldn't figure out something that worked. Cool settings, lore, and world building, only to ultimately succumb to corporate greed trodding over a beloved IP (most likely). Sigh.
I'm not even sure it is greed, the end of JW4 set up the next film - Caine vs Akira. A cat-and-mouse chase across continents with her fired up by vengeance and him reluctant to fight her because he knows is right in her own way. Then Anita involved Caine's daughter, precipitating the final showdown in which Akira realises she has become just as bad as Caine and backs off from the killing blow. At which point Caine strikes and she is forced to fight or die. The winner (likely Akira) gets to lead the franchise for the next few films, probably wracked with guilt, walking the Earth like Caine (the other one) perhaps hoping to do enough good deeds to.assuage their guilt.
I’d watch that.
Just stop making those movies.
Hollywood: "What is this... 'stop' you speak of?"
They don't need to stop, they just need to come back when they have a good story to tell, not trying to rummage a soul-less, corporate-mandated sequel together just to maintain momentum.
Not going to happen.
First movies are made to be original and tell a story, sequels are made to rake in the money and franchises are built to milk every last drop.
You can’t go back to original once the milkers have started sucking.
I downloaded Ballerina to watch on a plane a while back, thinking it was the John Wick spinoff. It took me half the movie to figure out it was not. I kept wondering why nobody has mentioned anything from the JW universe yet. Anyway, it was actually a pretty good movie, so maybe go watch that instead.
I have to rant a little, this will add nothing to your day and you should skip it. John Wick is one of my favorite movies ever, but every expansion pokes holes into the universe, and reduces the realism of the choreography. I love the first, and the character, but I think it’s past time the series end.
And look, I’m not saying it needs to be or ever was realistic. But the armor is so comical that it feels like a bad video game. In the fourth, enemies would visibly be staggered, act out a flailing animation, then recover right when it was time for them to be hit with a flashy execution move. I’m not a movie snob— I can even enjoy Transformers 2— but I kept getting distracted by background enemies doing nothing but biding time until their cue to die. Not unlike the Praetorians in Star Wars: The Last Jedi. The choreography was still masterful in that the stuntmen were immaculate, but the predictable dizziness animations made me feel some sense of real sadness remembering JW1 and even 2.
The story also got offensively stupid. The Osaka Continental staff felt like vaguely racist caricatures, bringing swords to a gunfight. The manager forcing Donnie Yen to kill him (effectively suicide by duel) purely for “honor” and making his daughter watch was particularly unimpressive. Really, every region felt like they took the most marketable bits with nearly no real culture; even the assassin society solely portrays the cool bits. I’m not the type to usually care about cultural respect in movies but it felt like distasteful stereotype. These plus the extremely disappointing choice to keep working with sexual predator Taran Butler make me wish it ended at the second.
So it doesn’t terribly surprise me that the spinoff is bad too. I can’t see any movie in this universe of barely-inhibitive juggernaut armor and nonsense worldbuilding being good again. I’d expect less than respectful portrayals of ballet, poorly thought out heavy handed commentary on female assassins, and bullet sponges conveniently dying because they were hit in a place that made them flounder. Every Wick installment has only made worse the problem, so I wouldn’t be surprised to see that here too. Hopefully I’m wrong and will eat these words, but ehhhhhhh. Probably not.
No hate to those who liked JW4, I understand the video game aesthetic can be appealing. I don’t even think the series should end purely because I didn’t like it, it’s great that there’s an audience walking away satisfied. Just wasn’t for me and I miss the older movies.
The best moment in the entire franchise is after the assassination squad is sent to his house in the first movie. I saw it in theaters and fully, unconsciously anticipated that when the police strobe lights started flashing through the windows, that we would get a tense scene of John Wick attempting to distract the cop and send him away without the bodies being discovered.
When instead he opens the door wide, and the cop casually peers past his shoulder, and just asks, "you working again?", it's such a delightful, comical, surprising reveal. The concept worked best when we as the audience expected the world to function familiarly, and it could playfully subvert those expectations in small ways. They dove so deep into the capital-L lore beginning in the second movie, that we no longer expected the world to function familiarly, and thereafter stopped being surprised.
The first flick is a bonified good movie. The rest are, varyingly, titillating scenes of artfully choreographed and executed action set pieces loosely strung together by indulgently juvenile nonsense.
Genuinely great scene. So is the phone call with Aurelio (“I heard you hit my son”), another excellent setup and play on expectations. And Perkins’ death which is one of the most memorable ways to kill off a powerful antagonist.
The concept worked best when we as the audience expected the world to function familiarly, and it could playfully subvert those expectations in small ways.
This is exactly it. By 4, the world is so nonsensical that it barely resembles the first. I view the first in a vacuum because the others actually harm it— why did the police even bother showing up in the circus world of the sequels where shootouts happen in the open? They also stopped with the playful subversions and I think tried to rely on the nonsense world to keep it light. I hadn’t actually seen the playfulness put to words, but you nailed it.
I’m glad the filmmakers probably had fun but the sequels can’t capture the almost believable action, genuinely decent plot, and emotional payoff. That and the general tone was totally discarded. I still watch 2 and 3 sometimes for the choreography, but damn if they don’t pale compared to the first.
I view the first in a vacuum because the others actually harm it
Lol I do the same thing! If I watch any of the sequels I view them essentially as fanfic. Your point about emotional payoff in the first is really good too. It's easy to forget watching the sequels that the dramatic core of the first movie was John's grief for his wife. The dramatic core of the sequels is little more, as I remember, than the convoluted bureaucracy and politics of John trying and failing to be left alone.
That's too bad. Ana de Armas is lovely.
Exactly. How do you fuck up something with ADA?
like what happened with Madame Web with Sydney Sweeney... Really?
Did you really have to remind me about Madame Web? I had almost completely forgotten about it.
She did a great job in the Bond movie. Funny, sexy, deadly.
I'd love to see her play Modesty Blaise
I’d love to see her play Modesty Blaise
Ooo this please.
Or Vampirella.
They are going to try Sydney Sweeney as Barbarella, but I have no great expectations.
They are going to try Sydney Sweeney as Barbarella, but I have no great expectations.
It's Edgar Wright re-adapting the original French comics so I am looking forward to it.
Très bien
The Jane Fonda version [imho] holds up very well.
Unfortunately she was in only one scene and heavily underutilized. I feel like she had more scenes but they were cut for..... everything else
Desperate to try make this movie about ana de armas or John wick.