@cypherpunks@lemmy.ml @MarcellusDrum@lemmy.ml Some ppl seemed to find this guide useful, I stickied it to the community. Should it go there, or maybe in the sidebar instead? Or not at all.
Linux
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).
Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word "Linux" in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.
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I agree that Alpine Linux shouldn't be recommended to newbies but I don't like the explanation. Distros like Alpine Linux are good for the whole Linux ecosystem, as they avoid monoculture and bring diversity to the software, which in turn they foster competition. Like a biological ecosystem, betting everything into one particular specie is a recipe for disaster. Some examples: Glibc has found many bugs because musl did things differently, and it turned out that glibc was not following the standard (also musl had bugs on its own), GCC was stuck until Clang came out and developers started to prefer Clang,...
First of all, thank you for this! This effort is very much appreciated and will definitely make it easier to parse through Linux; especially for beginners.
Having said that, some personal nitpicks of mine:
- I absolutely love Fedora. But if it's named first on your list of beginner distros (presumably due to alphabetical ordering), then it better be easy as hell and work as expected OOTB. Unfortunately, that ain't the case. Hence, at least mentioning the Howto page of RPM Fusion would have been sensible to combat issues users might experience otherwise.
- I'm fine with the inclusion of openSUSE Aeon, but openSUSE Kalpa is literally in Alpha. Therefore, it's too early to be recommended.
- I'm personally not very bothered with Fedora Workstation on the list of distros geared towards beginners, while Debian is found on the list of power-user distros that beginners should avoid instead. ~~(I'm a die hard Fedora fanboy anyways.)~~ However, I am curious to your reasoning/justification.
- Alpine Linux was originally envisioned as an embedded-first distribution. Therefore, most of its design choices revolve around that; small, secure, simple et cetera. The way that you describe/depict Alpine Linux, is more in line with how I would for (what I'd refer to as) demonstrative distros like Artix and Devuan.
I pondered a lot including a bit about rpmfusion in Fedora's paragraph, but I elected not to because there is already too much stuff here :D
As a 20-years Debian user who switched to Fedora a couple years ago on my main laptop, I would say confidently that Debian is the distro I'm the most comfortable with. I love Debian. But, there are a couple things that prevent me from recommending it as a very first distro:
- The base system is very barebones and you're required to manually install vital things like proprietary drivers (I think it's a bit more painless now with the nonfree installer but I haven't installed a fresh Debian in a few years). For me, having a fully functional Debian laptop is not hard work but requires a bit of knowledge beforehand.
- A lot of people want the latest and shiniest, and with Debian might be tempted to switch to Testing or Sid which is a very bad idea for a daily driver.
Good call about Kalpa, I'm removing it
Thank you for the clarifications!
Regarding what you mentioned on Debian; ultimately, you're a lot more experienced than I am with it. But, IIUC, Debian 12 should have done a great job at easing (new) users into its ecosystem. Not sure if it's sufficient though.
You're welcome!
Yeah I think the recent nonfree images should take care of the most pressing driver issues (last time I installed Debian, I had to separately download and put on a second USB stick the drivers for my WiFi card just to be able to proceed with the installer). I don't know if you still need to manually install proprietary blobs for the CPU or the GPU post-install tho. If not, that would mean modern Debian is indeed very close to OOTB functionality.
Some distros are maintained by a single person or a very small group of people. These distros do not usually last very long.
Except the oldest distro that still exists is maintained by one person.
Slackware?
Yes.
Reading this feels like reading those famous math textbooks, which are for people who are already well-versed in the field yet kept being shoved into undergraduate courses.
This is REAL Linux, done by REAL Linuxians.
"Hello I would like sudo pacman -Syyu
apples please"
They have played us for absolute fools.
I liked your guide, but the vocabulary feels a bit too technical for people who have never used Linux before and aren't tech savvy.
Sorry, I'm not a native English speaker and I work in IT :D
I however believe that it's more useful in the long run to use correct terminology (with a small explanation if necessary) rather than "dumbing it down", as it makes finding pertinent information quicker/easier.
I agree, we all have search engines and if someone doesn't understand a word or phrase they can learn it on their own. Brilliant write up!
Thanks !
There are two reasons switching to, or even trying out Linux is difficult and often ends in failure: too many choices or too much information. This (great) write up is an example of the latter. Those among us, the would be tutors of Linux, actually read the whole thing before hopping down to the comments, or offer our opinion. Be honest.
We are all passionate about FOSS. Not just because it's neato, but because we recognize that it improves the quality of life of anyone who uses it, and (hopefully) society at large.
Rather than providing many choices with a sink or swim mentality, or write a novel Herman Melville would envy, my suggestion is to become mentors rather tutors. What's the difference?
This is an exceptional write up, thanks!
I started with Mint and it was very simple to set up. I don’t really like the DE though (personal preference, I’ve used OSX for over 10 years). From your description it sounds like I can change Cinnamon to something else - is this fairly straightforward to do?
I’m looking to use the machine as a photo processing platform (from film and digital) and finding alternatives to Adobe products like Lightroom and Photoshop… with a view to ultimately having a NAS and cloud backup once I get to it.
Mint has three prebuilt options, Cinnamon is just the default. Beyond that you can also install other desktops.
From your description it sounds like I can change Cinnamon to something else
You definitely can.
is this fairly straightforward to do?
It ain't bad. However, I would opt for a distro that defaults to the preferred DE. In this case, similarly to Linux Mint, the distro would have to be beginner-friendly, popular, polished and stable^[2]^. So, IMO, that would be:
- GNOME^[3]^; Pop!_OS or Zorin OS
- KDE Plasma; Tuxedo OS
- Xfce; MX Linux
Note that there are many other DEs. However, the above mentioned DEs (together with Cinnamon) are the most polished and popular. And while there are many other distros through which you might 'consume' said DEs, the distros mentioned above are the ones I (personally) like to recommend.
- At least relatively speaking.
- Stable is used here in the context of meant to be used without updating for 'extended' time; except for security updates.
- While both default to GNOME, they differ pretty significantly in how they're setup and the associated envisioned workflow.
Distro best added to the "Power-user distros to avoid" list: Gentoo (saying that as a Gentoo user).
I disagree with your claim that doing things like installation steps manually is necessarily a bad idea, though. It depends on your goal. Obviously it isn't the fastest way to get things up and running, and as such it isn't appropriate for newcomers (or for mass corporate deployments). If your goal is to learn about the lower levels of the system, or to produce something highly customized, then it becomes appropriate. Occasionally, it pays dividends in the form of being able to quickly fix a system that's been broken by automation that didn't quite work as expected. Anyway, I'd suggest rewording that bit of your Arch screed.
Anything that refuse to use standards for ideological reasons
See: "Best Practice"
Thanks to this guide I've stopped banging my head against the wall trying to install Arch on a laptop and just ended up putting Mint on it. Nearly everything works out of the box, and Cinnamon seems to be close enough to what a Windows user would expect, and then some, seeing how customizable it is.
I'll bang my head against the wall again once I've familiarized myself with it.
Thanks again OP!
Thank you for sharing your experiences!
May I ask you what made you pursue an Arch installation in the first place?
The memes...
😂. Thanks for the clarification!
Thank you. Fantastic write-up. Saved for future use. :-)
I generally agree with these assessments. One point I would like to add some nuance to, though. This might not be the most popular take, but saying that Ubuntu should be avoided at all cost is a bit extreme. IMO.
If I may, here some counter-arguments to the criticisms of Ubuntu:
It is easy to use and accessible. It has a user-friendly interface and is installed with ease, making it an excellent choice for beginners. The large user base and extensive documentation also provide a wealth of resources for troubleshooting and learning.
Snap packages are convenient as they bundle all dependencies. Flatpaks do something similar, of course. But just because Canonical controls Snap and it is closed source doesn't automatically make it evil.
The fact that Canonical has successfully commercialised Linux doesn't always sit well with some people in the spirit of FOSS Linux, but they have also done a great deal to widen the distribution and appeal of Linux. Ubuntu has a large and active community that can be incredibly helpful to new users. The community support, forums and official documentation are most useful. I don't currently use Ubuntu, but use their resources frequently. Their work also makes the work of distros like Mint, Elementary and Pop! OS easier.
Ultimately, the choice of Linux distribution depends on individual needs and preferences - even for beginners. Although I am not a Ubuntu fan, I wanted to provide a counterpoint with this post. Ubuntu certainly has its flaws, but are we really doing the world of Linux a favour by promoting complete avoidance and thus damaging Ubuntu?
Anyway, just my opinion. I know some of you will disagree with me, perhaps passionately and strongly. Some will agree. That is fine. My hope is that the Linux world remains as diverse as possible, with plenty of options for everyone, and enough resources for fast, high quality development.
I think Ubuntu was relevant 15 years ago, when Linux was scary. Nowadays, it's neither easier to install nor to use than, say, Fedora for example. I'd even say any current distro with a live CD and a graphical installer is easier to install than Ubuntu 15 years ago.
The fact that Canonical has successfully commercialised Linux doesn't always sit well with some people in the spirit of FOSS Linux, but they have also done a great deal to widen the distribution and appeal of Linux.
I agree with the second part but not the first. Linux would be nowhere near what it is today without some serious corporate investments, so commercial Linux is a good thing (or a necessary evil depending on your POV). The largest kernel contributors are large IT and hardware companies, after all.
What's bad about Ubuntu is that the "free" version is an inferior product, like a shareware of old. The biggest commercial competitors like SLES or RHEL are downstream from excellent community distros (OpenSuse and Fedora, respectively).
The community support, forums and official documentation are most useful. I don't currently use Ubuntu, but use their resources frequently.
Fortunately that knowledge can be used downstream and often upstream too. After all, most Ubuntu issues are Debian Sid issues.
My opinion doesn't mean much since it's been forever since I tried any other distro but I'm surprised Debian isn't on the beginners list.
it might be a bit too involved for an absolute beginner to configure to perfection
I'm not really sure what this means? It might be more accurate to say it's not the best distro if you'd like to tinker with your desktop experience.
Notably, nothing on the beginners list ought to be run as a headless server, but debian is perfect for that job. The reason I've become so enamoured with debian over the years is that I can use it on my desktop and on servers and it's the same system - everything is exactly where I'm used to it being.
I don't agree at all that Wine is for advanced users. If you install Wine you can use most Windows software out of the box like it's Windows with modern Wine. I kept a Windows partition for quite a long time but nowadays I think Wine works well enough to not even need a Windows partition—Proton works well for gaming, and Wine works well for one Windows-only proprietary software I need to read some old files I have saved with a proprietary file format. (That's also the only non-game I use Wine for—for the vast majority of Windows-only software, there's a foss Linux alternative that works just fine, and it's worth looking around for those alternatives when you make the switch.)
I also disagree that not using standards (such as systemd) is reserved for "very advanced users". It depends on what exactly the standard you are moving away from is, but so long as you understand what it is you're replacing, what you're replacing it with, and how to use the replacement, you will be fine. Documentation is one big reason to avoid deviating from standards, but you may decide documentation is not as important as whatever your reason for wanting to use a different init system, or a different C library, or whatever. Tbh, personally, I use runit right now and find it a lot easier to use than systemd. It's very simple—services are just executables and symlinks. I'd have to check documentation and look at examples to make a systemd service, but to make a runit service I just have to create a directory with an executable in it, and to enable it I just make a symlink. The benefit of systemd is how widely used it is so you're more likely to find someone with the same problem as you, not because it's inherently easier to use.
If you
understand what it is you're replacing, what you're replacing it with, and how to use the replacement
then you, almost by definition, are an advanced user.
A beginner should avoid these things, once you are far enough along to understand why you might want to replace one of these things, and form your own opinion on it, then go right ahead. But you're no longer a beginner at that point.
How is a noob supposed to read and understand any of that?
Even my friends to which I have explained the general philosophy and utility of Linux (some of which are intrigued and somewhat open to switching) would look at me as if I were insane were I to send them this "guide"
How is a noob supposed to read and understand any of that?
Fuck I wasted 30000 characters when I should've posted this instead :D
zorin is so easy for someone used to windows it amazes me it manages to not get mentioned so often.
I feel like Manjaro is so much worse than Ubuntu. I don't like Ubuntu but you seem to be at the level of hate. Ubuntu has a nice layout and everything works out of the box. The problem is snap but that can be explained.
"Hate" is a strong word. I don't hate Ubuntu. It's just irrelevant.
It's not alone anymore in the realm of "easy to install and use", and ongoing enshittification nagging you to upgrade to Pro™️ makes it an objectively worse product than its direct competitors.
Exactly. Both Manjaro and Ubuntu have had a certain history of "silly misguided shenanigans" that sorta damage trust. You just never know when the next stunt might be pulled.
I personally didn't have too many problems with Manjaro on my gaming laptop, but have since moved to EndeavourOS, which I'm enjoying very much. :D
The problem is other distros exist that do everything Ubuntu does right without all the things Ubuntu does wrong
Very good write up overall. I'll start by admitting that I didn't read all of it. But from the parts that I did read, I have some small comments. I think that Debian Stable is a great beginner distro, since it's essentially unbreakable. With something like KDE Plasma as a DE, it's perfect for noobs. EndeavourOS is another great one. Maybe not for beginners, but for semi-advanced usecases.
Also, I'm not sure about suggesting the Atomic family of dostros to newcomers. It might be my relative unfamiliarity with them, but I don't think immutable distro are a good place to start. They're definitely great to try when you're familiar with Linux, but they're still kind of fringe. It's hard to get support using those.
I think immutable distros could be great for newbies, but I'm just thinking they're still so new that if you go online to look for Linux advice or help, most things you'll find are very much not for immutables and I doubt a true newbie understands what's what.
That's also a reason I'd recommend something like Debian (although I've actually never even used it myself) because there's so much compatible info out there. I would recommend OpenSUSE, even Tumbleweed, but there's just not as much help or there to find as there is for Debian. But even with that said, OpenSUSEs snapshots and the way they're configured out of the box is an absolute godsend and game changer for newcomers.
Good call about Atomic distros, I'm adding some precisions.