this post was submitted on 25 Jul 2023
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[–] Veraticus@lib.lgbt 194 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah it's truly awful.

The worst part is how disingenuous it is. It clearly exists because Google:

  1. Wants to circumvent ad-blockers since ads are its primary business model, and
  2. Link butts in chairs more closely to web browsers so they can sell better advertisement targeting.

If they just said they were doing it because they're an advertising company and they need better ads targeted to people, at least they would have the benefit of honesty. And in that case you might actually get some big sites on-board; like if a site can explicitly say "I need to recoup hosting fees and the only way for me to do that is targeted advertising and that makes this easier/better" there's actually a value proposition there.

But don't pretend this is for the benefit of consumers or the Internet overall, and definitely don't cloak your meaning behind vague platitudes about identity authenticity.

[–] whatisallthis@lemm.ee 86 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Wouldn’t it be sick if once your company got up to a net worth of ONE TRILLION DOLLARS you’d just stop trying to shoehorn in new ways to make profit?

[–] Rusky_900@reddthat.com 59 points 1 year ago (2 children)

It's comically perverted and epicly sad that leaders with power in society don't stop this kind of thing.

[–] MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz 33 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I've been questioning whether the current implementation of democracy can work in a modern world, where corporate entities can grow beyond the size of government.

As long as the people is represented by a smaller subset of the people, corporations wont need to please the people. Only the representatives. The same way that in the US, the electoral college means your vote technically doesn't have direct power, there's a disconnect between people voting for not getting screwed, and that sentiment actually becoming law.

[–] ItsMeSpez@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Sounds like taxation without representation to me.

[–] YourAvgMortal@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Wasn’t there a proposal to let companies vote in Delaware not too long ago? Democracy would truly only apply for the rich at that point

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[–] unionagainstdhmo@aussie.zone 8 points 1 year ago

I'm always disappointed that this kind of stuff gets no interest from the mainstream media. Nearly everyone in developed countries interacts with the internet and thus they should all care

[–] randomaccount43543@lemmy.world 185 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

Guys, if you don’t like these proposals from Google, you need to switch to Firefox now! It’s the only way to defend freedom on the web!

[–] Nevoic@lemmy.world 73 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Over 85% of Mozilla's income comes from their Google search deal. Google is keeping Mozilla alive to prevent antitrust issues. If Mozilla rocks the boat too much, Google will fund a more obedient alternative.

[–] Goodie@lemmy.world 89 points 1 year ago (2 children)

So your answer to "Google is evil use another browser" is... if we all swap to Firefox google will kill it?

Google is keeping Firefox alive because 5% of all web users using Google search by default is pretty useful for them.

If you want to avoid that, simply use firefox and set your search to DuckDuckGo/Bing. If Google drops them, Microsoft have already shown a want to step up into that position.

[–] archomrade@midwest.social 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

All good advice, but nevoic makes a good point. Google is too big to be meaningfully threatened by Mozilla, if firefox pulls a critical mass away from google, they will absolutely move to kill it.

Google needs to be broken up, and the US govt isn't going to just volunteer to do that on their own given how valuable google's data is to the intelligence agencies.

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[–] mrmanager 44 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

About 5 years too late but appriciated still.

People just don't listen or care. They click on chrome because it's recommended by their daddy Google.

[–] Imgonnatrythis@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago (6 children)

Why are you pushing Firefox when Vivaldi did the work of writing this article and Vivaldi has consistently been pro-user, pro privacy, and anti-google even while using Chromium as their backbone. Viva Vivaldi.

[–] themoonisacheese@sh.itjust.works 39 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Using any chromium fork is supporting chromium as the default browser, and choosing gecko-based browsers means you throw your hat in the ring to show websites that not just chromium browsers visit them. Using a chromium fork also means you accept that google will dictate standards less harmful than web integrity. While it's not the end of the world, the last time this happened IE9 happened. Using Firefox means google can't simply decide to implement any spec they want and that spec becomes true because all user agents have it (exactly what is at risk of happening here. Vivaldi may make nice blog posts but if this ends up happening they'll be happy to implement it else risk losing their entire user base)

The would have been an argument to be made about performance but nowadays blink and gecko are pretty much at the same performance level.

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[–] SkyeStarfall@lemmy.blahaj.zone 29 points 1 year ago (1 children)
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[–] MetaCubed@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago

Death to chromium forked browsers. Vivaldi is chromium.

[–] pfannkuchen_gesicht@lemmy.one 11 points 1 year ago

Because it's better to support a diversity of web render engines instead to avoid a situation like back in the days with IE.

[–] Bootheal0179@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago

I have used Vivaldi and even led my kid to use it, but I still always go back to Firefox and/or LibreWolf for peace of mind and extensions like uBlock Origin and Anesidora.

[–] derpbot@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

Firefox has officially stated their position on this https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/852

[–] RiceKirby@lemmy.world 108 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I really think the world needs a few more Elon Musks around. I mean, wouldn't it be great to have a Musk at Google to destroy it from the inside just like he's doing to Twitter?

[–] luthis@lemmy.nz 43 points 1 year ago

Google needs to be elonned to hell

[–] danielbln@lemmy.world 24 points 1 year ago

You had me at the first half, ngl.

[–] PKMKII@lemmy.world 62 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Cory Doctorow talked a bit about this, among other enshittification problems, on his Pluralustic post today.

[–] Docus@lemmy.world 20 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Thanks, enjoyed reading that

[–] rm_dash_r_star@lemm.ee 14 points 1 year ago

Man that article points out some scary trends. It's just crazy the way they're using digital technology to economically enslave us with subscriptions for product function and maintenance. Then the way they use that technology to monitor us. I saw the end coming with the John Deere business some decades ago. My feeling was I sure hope that practice never comes to normal consumer products, but here it is. It's feudal for sure and a blatant violation of consumer rights. You don't own products anymore and you still get to pay for them like you do.

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[–] LPThinker@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

This is a fantastic overview of the issue with this proposal, in the broader context of enshittification.

[–] Chipthemonk@lemm.ee 54 points 1 year ago (9 children)

I do not trust Google at this stage. I pine for the day when Google seemed like a good company. Gmail was awesome when it came out, for example, and Google search worked well. Now I feel they are harvesting all my data to jam ads down my throat. Google search now sucks ass and just returns websites that have a bunch of AI nonsense or aggregated content that is effectively worthless.

I am migrating away from Google.

[–] joe@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago (9 children)

Now I feel they are harvesting all my data to jam ads down my throat.

I'm curious: how did you expect them to pay for the overhead of providing this service? I'm sure you didn't think that they would just eat the cost of providing it forever, right?

[–] archomrade@midwest.social 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Not that I disagree, but this is a shit take IMHO. It's always been the case that ads paid for "free" services, but the scale and invasiveness of the ads and data collection has clearly accelerated beyond a reasonable level. They waited until they captured a large enough user base and crowded out enough of their competition before gouging their users for ad revenue. They have the size and reach of a small(or medium-sized, even) nation, the data they are able to collect is a wet dream for any three letter agency.

Just because ads are what make the business model feasible doesn't mean they get a free pass to abuse their market position carte blanche. They should be cut down to size, and not just by user migration.

[–] joe@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (10 children)

but the scale and invasiveness of the ads and data collection has clearly accelerated beyond a reasonable level

Reasonable to whom? You? Google? The legal system? Some dude living in a bunker in South Dakota? Which person or entity should google consult with before making a decision on what level is "reasonable"?

Making the decision to fund a vast majority of the internet with ads was a pretty big mistake in hindsight, though I couldn't say which way would have been better.

We don't disagree on the basics; I just don't blame a company for acting in the company's best financial interests. That's kind of the way they work-- arguably the CEO of a public company is bound by law to do so. I blame the representatives in the (US) government for failing to protect my interests and privacy. I frequently see news articles about consumer protections in Europe and feel jealous that we don't have the same level here.

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[–] hightrix@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

This is not the users problem. This is googles problem.

If they want to give away a thing for free, then don’t be surprised when people take that thing for free.

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[–] dx1@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Read more about their actual budget.

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[–] HelloHotel@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

recurrant subscriptions, Corprate mail hosting, non invasive ads, not double-dipping, notreadimg your mail

It doesnt make all the money, but its not corrupt.

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[–] Myriadblue@lemmy.world 50 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

Final nail in the coffin of don't be evil. Next they'll require this for accessing gmail

[–] ApeNo1@lemm.ee 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I have always struggled with this corporate motto from Google. If this is something you call out from day one then it feels like someone was thinking about doing evil but needed to be kept in check. It is like those “remove baby from stroller before folding” messages that you know is there because someone thought about it or did it already.

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[–] Iron_Lynx@lemmy.world 27 points 1 year ago

I hope the EU can get to a quick decision on this. I trust they'll provide a carrot on a stick to maintain the open internet in a way that'll make Google suffer if they decide to not play ball with Brussels' terms.

[–] megrania@discuss.tchncs.de 23 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)
[–] eth0p@iusearchlinux.fyi 19 points 1 year ago

Good article. Not clickbait/ragebait, and it explains the specification simply and succinctly, while also demonstrating why it's dangerous for the open web.

[–] ChatGPT@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I’m really hoping this doesn’t make it into Brave their teams has removed a lot of Google crap in the past. Mullvad’s fork of Firefox can always replace them.

[–] Zarxrax@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

You don't seem to understand. This is not a feature that a browser can simply choose not to implement. The WEBSITES that you are accessing will be checking that you are using a verified browser and that you are a confirmed user.

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