I dislike the elimination of taxes on tips because it opens a new loophole for rich assholes but I'm 100% behind eliminating sub-minimum wages.
this post was submitted on 09 Sep 2024
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It does feel like we should be encouraging the end of tipping, not asking it to stick around forever.
Removing the minimum wage exception to tips does help with that. Part of the reason why tips are inventived
Plus taxes on tips as they exist already has quite a number of assumptions that tipping will always exist. For instance, assumptions of a minimum 8% tip rate for reporting. Which will be withheld from pay from at least that assumption (which you can get back if you earn less by filling)
Wouldn't the elimination of taxes on tips entrench that non-taxable income as something servers would die before ever surrendering? Treating it as income means that whether that money is coming from hourly vs. tips is irrelevant and, at the end of the day, hourly compensation is always more reliable if all else is equal.
This was my concern, but if y'all think servers will give up their tax free tips... sure...
Yes, it would.
It would be preferrable to change the tax code on it differently, yes, but unfortunately in elections that going to be difficult to explain to people rather than the much simpler "no taxes on tips"
Mind you that trump has the same plan on tips tax removal here but without any of the minimum wage change stuff
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PLEASE ENTER YOUR TIP PREFERENCE HERE
25% 28% 35%
^skip^
Swivel the ipad 360° and walk away
Wouldn't that just point it back at you?
Also they just pick the tip amount then.
I agree, and we'd have to do it carefully so tipped workers continue making roughly the same as they do now.
Where I live a handful of trendy restaurants announced opened as no-tipping restaurants. They would add a 20% gratuity to every bill and claim it was used "to support a living wage and benefits" to the staff. Usually it was just sucked up into the revenue pile and used however the owner wanted.
If restaurants dropped tipping, raised their prices by 20%, and paid their staff 20% more, I would be okay with that. In the European countries I've visited, it seems to work just fine and food is still cheaper than where I live.
Harris's proposal specifically includes an income limit to prevent people like hedge fund managers and lawyers from structuring their pay as "tips". Trump's version predictability does not.
It sucks for more than just that though. There's 0 reason for tipped workers to pay less in taxes over workers making the same just by virtue of being tipped.
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And to clarify, she is also calling for an overall increased minimum wage at the same time
It won't be enough, it never will, but at least it raises it in the few states that have less than or no minimum. I'm guessing Georgia and Wyoming still have a lesser minimum because it just wasn't worth the effort to change the laws.
There's a chance they go further and make things better in the longer-term
If dems get the house and maintain the senate, there's a decent chance that some dem reps will take a crack again at tying the minimum wage to inflation. There were proposed bills in the past by dems which would do exactly that
I keep going back to this whenever someone in a US politics discussion says "Harris' campaign doesn't go far enough in ___"...
Harris can barely promise anything truly special if Republicans have even one potent avenue of obstruction, so it's up to US voters to deliver their voice towards what they want to see.
A full sweep. I don't know if it's possible this election (i.e. who is running) but the numbers need to change to enable progress.
The game is tough for Democrats, I don't think this gets nearly enough attention, but pretty much they have to win all the close races, and flip a couple more. Current Projections show 48(D+I)/2(Tossup)/50(R).
The longshot potential flips are:
- everyone's favorite real human Ted Cruz of Texas by Collin Allred
- Rick Scott of Florida by Debbie Mucarsel-Powell
About 20%, 30% chance according to TheHill. A lot of work will be needed to unseat those GOP powerhouses.
Democratic held seats that have various likelihood to flip to Republican are:
- Jon Tester of Montana to Tim Sheehy,
- Elissa Slotkin of Michigan to Mike Rogers,
- Jacky Rosen of Nevada to Sam Brown,
- Bob Casey of Pennsylvania to Dave McCormick,
- Tammy Baldwin of Wisconsin to Eric Hovde, and
- Sherrod Brown of Ohio to Bernie Moreno.
A lot more work will also be needed to keep all these seats. And young people are going to have to look to the bigger picture, show up in droves if they want to prove any poll wrong.
Definitely a real possibility, but tight in the senate
The senate is likely to come down to: can Dems either maintain John Tester in Montana or flip Florida or Texas
There's also the funky possibility that Dan Osborn wins as an independent in Nebraska and overturns a deep red seat. Limited polls put him neck and neck. There's no dem in that race and Osborn has distanced himself from all parties. He said he'd likely try not to caucus with anyone, but if it didn't work out he'd caucus with whoever aligns better with his goals. He's very pro-union (he lead Kellog's strike in 2021), pro-right to repair, pro-legal weed, against corporate ballouts, against a national abortion ban, but appears a bit more conservative on immigration, so make of that what you will
It's not only up to US voters. It's up to US citizens in general, and any workers who are working in the US, to advocate for themselves in forceful ways, including unionizing, striking, and reporting corporate crime by their bosses, among other things.
Politicians will vote for laws when they are forced to, not because the word "Democrat" appears next to their name. Election day matters, but so does every other day.
That would be huge. Then the debate is back to what is a "livable wage", and how can you calculate it for differing areas. It would be nice to have constructive arguments again.
My opinion is to break it up, have an overall federal, then state, then urban. Same with any type of UBI scenario since no one thing is going to fit all needs.
It won’t be enough, it never will
I'm old enough to remember Obama raising the federal contractor wage to $10.10/hr and conservatives absolutely melting down. Shortly thereafter, we got a slew of state laws that forbade individual cities from raising the minimum wage. And then we got a vicious crackdown on migrant workers, on the grounds that they were "stealing jobs".
I’m guessing Georgia and Wyoming still have a lesser minimum because it just wasn’t worth the effort to change the laws.
Wyoming, in particular, is just warmed over feudalism. You either work for your O&G overlords as roughnecks and earn a better-than-Idaho standard of living or you work in the service sector as the servant class to the out-of-state roughnecks or you just exist as a landless vagabond hoping to survive the next winter.
Plus there are a few thousand bougie failkids living the high life in Jackson Hole on permanent vacation.
Why do we have to keep fighting for a higher minimum wage? We should just set it at a livable rate then have it automatically adjusted annually based on CPI or a similar economic metric.
Some Dems in congress have tried to propose bills that die exactly that in the past and had it get shot down by republicans
Edit: worth noting at the state level that some dem controled states have started actually doing that such as California and New York
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Cue countless restaurant owners whining and trying to seriously complain that they can’t “compete” without underpaying their employees.
"I couldn't possibly compete with other businesses who would also be required to do the same thing in the same way that I would! It just wouldn't be fair!"
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There's a long tail of servers/bartenders who are against this as well because they work at expensive establishments and make bank off tips. Like high double digits an hour.
If the push to convert tips into wages ever becomes serious, conservative media will do its best to platform and promote these servers who stand to lose income off it. We gotta think of a rhetoric/messaging strategy to counter that.
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Finally! This drives me crazy. How is it ok to pay less than the minimum? Even if there is a chance they can make more from tips. The tips are a perk of the job not the main funding source. Idk why we let companies get away with this. If you can't afford to pay a living wage you can't afford to be in business.
"In my Inaugural I laid down the simple proposition that nobody is going to starve in this country. It seems to me to be equally plain that no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country. By "business" I mean the whole of commerce as well as the whole of industry; by workers I mean all workers, the white collar class as well as the men in overalls; and by living wages I mean more than a bare subsistence level-I mean the wages of decent living."
-FDR
This is absolutely horrible! Whatever will be next? 5 weeks paid holiday?!?!
This is un-American, which is why I vote Trump. 🤪😜
/s
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How about we do a maximum wage instead?
Progressive tax rates
Wage? Naw. Executive salary and stock compensation? Absolutely
That doesn't apply to bonuses. Most of these billionaires have salary in the millions and massive "bonuses" based on whatever metrics they want.
This is probably why they want no taxes on tips so they can claim those bonuses tax free.
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Next: move minimum wages in-line to what they would have been had they been locked to productivity gains since 1970.
Hint: $30+/hr.
Better yet: lock minimum wage to being no less than 3× median rent for any one region
If there are sub-minimum wages, wouldn't they be the minimum wage?
It’s more of a loophole for jobs like serving that rely on tips. If it was the minimum then all the minimum wage earners would be at server salary.
Another way to help the service industry would be to make medicinal cocaine (and similar) a tax deductible business expense. It’s a more valid business expense than a programmer buying a third monitor.
Or how about banning the practice of making the bartenders/waitresses tip out the bar back or bus boys when they should all just be getting paid a living wage by their employer. That would also be good for tipped employees.
when they should all just be getting paid a living wage by their employer
The call to end to the minimum wage exception for tipped employees (+ calling for increases in minimum wage) are specifically trying to get more towards a living wage for them?
That's almost as good as raising the minimum wage. Almost.
It's raising a minimum wage.
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