Xbox's biggest crisis right now isn't games. It's hardware. (Opinion

[-] narc0tic_bird@lemm.ee 50 points 11 months ago

I don't think it's hardware. It's a differentiator. Tell me why I (or whoever) should pick an Xbox over a PlayStation?

Microsoft tried to answer that question with Game Pass, seemingly going all in on that concept, paying or outright buying publishers to bring their games to Game Pass. Some people may love Game Pass, but most people I know either never subscribed to it or only tested it when it was like 1,-€ for a month or whatever.

What else differentiates it from the PS5 in a positive way? Sure, the Series X is a bit more powerful than the PS5, but it's close enough that it basically results in slightly different behavior for games with dynamic resolution scaling, with the PS5 sometimes even pulling ahead oddly enough (probably a more mature SDK, not sure).

The controller is...well, a decent controller. It doesn't do anything special like adaptive triggers, yet it costs almost the same as a DualSense, and if you count in the optional (!) battery pack, it's quite a bit more expensive even.

Playing online costs just as much as on PS5 (why do you have to pay extra to play online in 2023, anyways?).

Of the few mentionable exclusive games, most are honestly just mediocre (also in terms of critical acclaim).

What's left? Backwards compatibility for 360 games? Sure that's nice, but surely not a system seller for most people, especially when they don't already have a ton of 360 games.

I just don't see many cases where someone would prefer the Xbox Series X to a PlayStation 5, without even taking into account what platform their friends are on.

If you want to win market share, deliver a better product. With better services. With better conditions. For lower prices.

That is how it works. Crying to the public about how unfair it is because Sony has such a large installed base already because of how Microsoft fucked up the Xbox One generation (at or even before launch) is NOT how it works.

[-] Vestria@beehaw.org 36 points 11 months ago

I don't think it's hardware. It's a differentiator. Tell me why I (or whoever) should pick an Xbox over a PlayStation?

What else differentiates it from the PS5 in a positive way?

The thing is, it's not even Games Pass or the hardware. For me, as a PC gamer, having an Xbox would be redundant. Anything an Xbox can do, my PC just does strictly better without a cumbersome UI and additional online subscription.

I own a PS5 for access to Sony exclusives when they launch, instead of waiting 1-5 years for the PC ports. I also get access to PS Plus' extensive classic collection and indie collections, which, regardless of the price of the subscription, broadens my gaming library extensively--something Xbox simply doesn't do.

Why would I purchase a console that only gives me access to the same games on a worse system vs a console that expands my library considerably?

[-] brognak@lemm.ee 8 points 11 months ago

100% this. I was bored and felt like setting money on fire a week ago, and figured I should grab a Series X finally. Went and looked through exclusives and, woof.

I just bought some nice Amano prints instead.

load more comments (1 replies)

[-] NoPolToday@beehaw.org 3 points 11 months ago

The console experience is different enough though. I have a PC I can game on with no issue, but I rarely do, because i love my sofa, my LG OLED and my soundbar. At the end of a tiring working day, after taking care of my chores, putting the kids to bed, I just can't get back to the computer, especially if I had to use it all day long for work...
But, at the end of the day, it's all a matter of preference: do you like PS 1st party kinds of games? Go for PlayStation. Are you more eclectic? Go for Game Pass. Your kids want a potent enough machine for Roblox and Fortnite? The Series S is there for you. Do you travel a lot? Go for a Switch or a Steam Deck (loving mine btw).
Plus, the ultimate question: How much does a PC/a console or a new game cost in your country?

[-] SeaJ@lemm.ee 3 points 11 months ago

Steam is streamable through a Chromecast so you could easily play your PC games on your TV.

I agree with your sentiment though. Play whatever fits you. The Xbox offers plenty as do the PS5 and Switch.

load more comments (1 replies)

[-] DingoFan@beehaw.org 14 points 11 months ago

Whenever people ask which console they should buy, my first question is "what do your friends play on?" Hardware/Games you can argue till you're blue in the face. Playing with friends should be a main motivator in deciding what platform you choose, if you are limited to one.

[-] upstream@beehaw.org 13 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

I used to think that not having a built in rechargeable battery was a dull idea.

However: Whenever I wanted to play on my PS3 the batteries were empty and the controllers needed to be recharged.

Around the time I got my first Xbox I came to the realization that I had more units than I ever thought consuming AA or AAA batteries, so I decided to go all in on rechargeable batteries.

I love it. Whenever my Xbox tells me that the controller needs new batteries it takes me 20 seconds to swap in a new pair.

I don’t ever think about having to plug the controller. I don’t care if I pick it up and it’s dead. Etc. etc.

And best of all, there’s literally no drain when it sleeps. My switch controllers drains the battery when it’s resting. The PS3 drains the controller. Don’t know about the PS4 and PS5.

[-] ampersandrew@kbin.social 10 points 11 months ago

I don’t think it’s hardware. It’s a differentiator. Tell me why I (or whoever) should pick an Xbox over a PlayStation?

They know it's a losing battle to try to build the same product as an entrenched competitor after they burned themselves with the Xbox One, which is why they much prefer you're a subscriber to Game Pass, with an Xbox or not.

Some people may love Game Pass, but most people I know either never subscribed to it or only tested it when it was like 1,-€ for a month or whatever.

They've got like 25-30 million subscribers, so it's quite popular. Probably half or a third as popular as Microsoft would like, but it's popular. I myself have plenty of friends who want to play more games than they can afford, and now they can afford them because of Game Pass. Especially the flash in the pan zeitgeist stuff like Exoprimal or Rainbow Six: Extraction that they can say they've played but will never touch again.

What else differentiates it from the PS5 in a positive way?

Quick resume. To be honest, what sets the PS5 apart from the Xbox hardware in a positive way? The SSD speeds that ended up not even mattering much for Ratchet & Clank, from what I hear of the PC port.

The controller is…well, a decent controller. It doesn’t do anything special like adaptive triggers, yet it costs almost the same as a DualSense, and if you count in the optional (!) battery pack, it’s quite a bit more expensive even.

By contrast, I know tons of people who hate the PS5 controller, not the least of which for its short battery life and inability to swap batteries like you can for Xbox. As a fighting game player, I know competitive players who hate the d-pad, and Sony did everyone dirty by requiring the use of a PS5 controller only even though the entire scene has had controllers for a decade that would work just fine, and even work on the PS5 when running a "PS4 game" on a PS5. Xbox's controllers are backward and forward compatible. If Sony had some kind of reason for requiring the functionality of the new controller, sure, have at it, but they put this requirement in place for games that make no use of the new controller's features at all, which is a dick move.

If you want to win market share, deliver a better product. With better services. With better conditions. For lower prices.

I think they did exactly that, but as far as which console sells more units, it's still PlayStation, because they have a couple of games that, at least for a couple of years, you can only play on PlayStation. But I think Microsoft saw that they were never going to be able to compete with that directly, at least before their acquisition spree, so the Xbox is just a low-cost machine that gets you into Game Pass, long-term.

[-] Karzyn@beehaw.org 4 points 11 months ago

Is the Xbox controller being backwards/forwards compatible actually a feature? I thought that the only difference between them was the presence of a share button. Not to discount your point about it being bs that ps5 games require a new controller.

I guess the answer to your question about what hardware advantage the ps5 has it has to primarily be the controller. The new vibration and adaptive triggers are super engaging. I also personally prefer the way it feels to a ps4 one. Unfortunately I don't have an Xbox so I can't compare. Obviously that's a personal preference thing though, it's completely valid for you to dislike them.

That said, let's be honest, I got it for the exclusive games.

load more comments (3 replies)

[-] sylverstream@lemmy.nz 10 points 11 months ago

Xbox owner here. I love the xbox for gamepass, have been subscribed for years. Think I also prefer the xbox controller. I miss some of the exclusives of PS5.

But it's very much an opinion I believe. I totally understand if people buy a PS5.

[-] TwilightVulpine@kbin.social 6 points 11 months ago

It's ironic and somewhat revolting to see the behemoth that is Microsoft crying that it can't compete and it needs to acquire other publishers, when it already has a collection of studios and franchises, means to fund brand new studios and make even better hardware. If they aren't competitive now, it's because of their own bad decisions.

Although it seems that despite their hardware not being as popular, they seem to sell GamePass for PC at least decently.

[-] upstream@beehaw.org 5 points 11 months ago

Can’t compete… because Sony is paying publishers to make games exclusive for the PS5.

As a PC gamer at heart exclusives suck.

Over the years I almost bought a console on a few occasions due to exclusives, or games shipping first on console.

Red Dead Redemption and GTA IV, then GTA V.

By the time RDR2 came out I had bought an Xbox One S - because it was the cheapest 4K BD player on the market.

Oh, the irony. Still haven’t bought a 4K BD. Prices were ridiculous. Probably still are. Found that 4K streaming titles on Apple TV were so good I didn’t need better than that.

But since stumbling into the One S led me to buy RDR2 on release day.

Halfway through I upgraded to the One X, and when Series X came out I had it less than a month later after putting in a pre-order about a month before release.

A colleague who pre-ordered PS5 six months before I even thought about the Series X had to wait 7 months from release for his.

[-] TwilightVulpine@kbin.social 3 points 11 months ago

I agree that exclusives suck, but acquisitions are worse in every way. At least with a deal you can hope that eventually the game will be out for everything, or the next one will. Now if anyone hopes to get a Bethesda game on other consoles again, they are out of luck.

But also, if first-party XBox games were more appealing they wouldn't be in this situation. Sony can't lock Nintendo out of the market because people want Mario and Zelda anyway.

load more comments (4 replies)

[-] hascat@programming.dev 6 points 11 months ago

why do you have to pay extra to play online in 2023, anyways?

The one-time cost of a game isn't going to cover the ongoing costs of hosting the servers hosting the game.

[-] narc0tic_bird@lemm.ee 11 points 11 months ago

You do realise that the game developers/publishers need to host the actual game servers themselves, and they don't get any piece of the PS+/Xbox Live subscription cake, right?

Yeah sure, the store, friends network, voice chat and what have you do cost money to keep operating, but how does it all work so well on PC then - where it's free - yet on console they want >50 bucks a year for it? They get 30%+ from game sales, you can't convince me that paying for online is anywhere close to being required for sustainability of the service.

load more comments (1 replies)

[-] Neato@kbin.social 2 points 11 months ago

You're right. Hardware is close enough to parity to be irrelevant. The competition in the 2-party console market (Nintendo doesn't count, they're in a different league) is in exclusive titles. It's why the MS-Activision merger had so much focus on Call of Duty and such: MS will take all their new titles exclusive as soon as they can and that's what drives sales. People choose consoles based on what games they want to play, or what consoles the friends they play with use if there are cross-platform titles.

[-] I_Has_A_Hat@lemmy.ml 6 points 11 months ago

XBox and Playstation: Hyper-realism! Low latency, higher frame rate! Games for serious adult gamers! FPS and Hack&Slash are the best genres ever!

Nintendo: We make fun games for fun people. Give us your money.

[-] ampersandrew@kbin.social 9 points 11 months ago

Nintendo: "Also, we'll sue you for pirating games we don't sell anymore, because we might want to rent them to you in perpetuity instead."

[-] Neato@kbin.social 4 points 11 months ago

Exactly. Nintendo has targeted game styles that are largely being shared by smaller developers. AAA devs pretty much have to push visual boundaries in order to sell consoles while Nintendo focuses on whatever new major feature their newest console has (Wii: motion, WiiU: semi-handheld, Switch: hybrid handheld). Nintendo hasn't tried to compete with the big consoles at least since Gamecube. And their focus on few, high-quality titles for first party series means they have nearly guaranteed success every console generation (actual guaranteed success with pokemon).

[-] robotrash@lemmy.robotra.sh 2 points 11 months ago

If you haven't figured out why you're paying for online play in 2023 I'm afraid you never will...

[-] DingoFan@beehaw.org 5 points 11 months ago

If you don't understand or can't figure why a service like Game Pass requires a fee, then you are either woefully ignorant of how technology and security works, or you are being willfully disingenuous motivated by loyalty to a specific platform.

[-] narc0tic_bird@lemm.ee 3 points 11 months ago

I was talking about the ability to simply play games that I already purchased online. Game Pass was a different paragraph and context.

If you really think Microsoft or Sony requires this yearly subscription fee to keep the service running, just look at equivalent PC services like Steam (or, you know, Xbox Live online play, which is free on PC) and realise how wrong you are. Microsoft and Sony get a big chunk of game sales (30%+), they are fine.

Actual game servers are hosted by the game publisher, not by Microsoft or Sony (unless it's a first party title, of course). Publishers don't get a single piece of the subscription.

[-] robotrash@lemmy.robotra.sh 3 points 11 months ago

That's exactly what I'm trying to say. These services cost actual money and MS historically has had a significantly more reliable online service and a huge reason why is the Live charge. Sony only managed to have a reliable service when they started charging for it. I feel like a lot of people with the sentiment above didn't play games when online CONSOLE multiplayer was born.

[-] narc0tic_bird@lemm.ee 4 points 11 months ago

I'm not. I'm playing on PC 95% of the time, and I play the Sony exclusives only in single player on my PS5 anyway.

What I'm saying is that this could be a differentiator for Microsoft that they just don't seem to be interested in (it would obviously lose them a lot of revenue from existing customers at first). I feel like more people would get an Xbox for multiplatform games if they save over 50 bucks a year because they don't have to pay for online play. Heck, I'd probably spring for a Series S for the odd round of Sea of Thieves and the likes on the big screen TV (I know, I could connect my PC, but it's just very comfortable that way). But having to pay for online is a no-go for me, especially because it's not my primary platform.

I wouldn't be surprised if many of the folks that only play FIFA or the likes would get a Series S if it's marketed correctly, and they didn't have to pay for online play.

load more comments (1 replies)

load more comments (4 replies)

load more comments (1 replies)

[-] hightrix@kbin.social 42 points 11 months ago

Call me dumb if you want, but I still see a big issue in MSFT's naming convention for XBox. They need to stop trying to be clever and just do something sequential.

[-] HalJor@beehaw.org 27 points 11 months ago

They're just following the naming convention established by Windows: 1, 2, 3, NT, 95, 98, 2000, Me, XP, Vista, 7, 8, 10, 11

[-] Amilo1591@lemmynsfw.com 8 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Only if.. if Windows used same scheme as Xbox you'd get:

Microsoft Windows, Windows 95 , Windows XP, Windows One, Windows OS NT, Windows OS One.

[-] twistedtxb@lemmy.ca 11 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Frankly MS doesn't really care about as much about hardware considering the cost of production, as long as their services are profitable.

Sure they would prefer not to be outsold 2:1 but as long that Gamepass PC exists and sells well, they're fine with this.

[-] Orvanis@lemm.ee 9 points 11 months ago

Exactly. Microsoft also has the benefit of double-dipping - they have Xbox, but they also get a healthy cut from PC as a vast majority of gamers are going to be running Windows.

This article feels very much like a fanboy wanting to keep the stupid "console wars" going, when really Microsoft is happy to just rake in the cash.

[-] mephiska@kbin.social 2 points 11 months ago

vast majority of gamers are going to be running Windows.

Vast majority of PC gamers are on windows, yeah. But overall the PC gamer market and console gamer markets are similar. There's a lot of overlap too as PC gamers also have consoles.

[-] iminahurry@discuss.tchncs.de 10 points 11 months ago

20 million units of a gaming console hardly sounds like a crisis. People have gotten far too used to sales number of mobile phones. Consoles are not something everyone buys.

[-] TwilightVulpine@kbin.social 9 points 11 months ago

That is a circular problem. People don't buy Xbox because it doesn't have exclusives appealing enough to make them pick it over the alternatives. As much as I'd wish game exclusivity wasn't a thing, it does effectively attract customers. They had many IPs which could attract players, even before the ActiBlizz acquisition.

The Xbox Series S sounds appealing in theory but they could have gotten all the benefits of that simply by supporting the Xbox One for an extended period of time. As for cloud, I doubt it is that which is holding back their sales. If they say the demand is still small they are likely not keeping too many units for that.

[-] Neato@kbin.social 4 points 11 months ago

Xbox because it doesn't have exclusives appealing enough to make them pick it over the alternatives.

Soon. Their acquisition of Bethesda and now Activision will push a lot of in-demand titles to Xbox and PC going forward. They'll be a lot more "competitive" with Sony now.

[-] TwilightVulpine@kbin.social 7 points 11 months ago

I'm skeptical, because they had Halo, Banjo & Kazooie, Conker, Perfect Dark, and they don't seem to know what to do with those. Killer Instinct 2013 was nice but it's been a decade we don't get anything else from that. We are only now getting to see some of the projects from the newer studios they have been acquiring, but Redfall definitely didn't get my hopes up.

Are they gonna keep buying publishers whenever their output dries up under them? Is the problem really a lack of studios or is it that they can't manage them well.

[-] ampersandrew@kbin.social 5 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

The problem is that development times exploded upward, so it takes so, so long to get a game out the door, and it appears as if they've done nothing. The first game from the Zenimax acquisition that started development under Microsoft leadership likely won't come out until 2026, for example. Sony already released most of their heavy hitters, and the next big Sony first-party game similar to God of War, Horizon, Uncharted, or The Last of Us is likely several years away still (Wolverine, maybe). The next one after that will probably be a PlayStation 6 game.

As for Killer Instinct, rumor has it we'll see another one in the near future, probably from Bandai Namco now that they're not working on Soul Calibur or Smash.

load more comments (16 replies)

[-] Neato@kbin.social 2 points 11 months ago

Their management kind of sucks but that isn't rare in games publishing. Publisher make insane moves all the time. Unfortunately for MS, from your list only Halo is relevant and that has had rocky releases for quite a while. Now that they can sequester Bethesda and Activision games they can probably be hands-off and just wait for exclusive sales to come in.

[-] TwilightVulpine@kbin.social 2 points 11 months ago

That definitely doesn't inspire confidence, especially when, for all of Sony's sketchy deals, their first-party games are consistently good.

[-] worfamerryman@beehaw.org 3 points 11 months ago

They could be pushing out perfect dark games, banjo kazooy, what else do they have? So many things!

[-] Amilo1591@lemmynsfw.com 8 points 11 months ago

Xbox hardware is fine, games are fine, controllers are excellent (long battery life), price is fine..

It's the brand image that's shit. All thanks to random naming system that erodes any brand loyalty someone would have.

[-] Hdcase@beehaw.org 3 points 11 months ago

I agree with you about the brand loyalty. But the fact remains, they put out a console in 2020 that in some ways was actually weaker in power than the console they put out in 2017. Great for customers since it's so cheap, but not great for developers when other modern systems are so much more powerful. Larian can't even put out Baldur's Gate 3 on XSS because it can't handle split screen for that game, which means no XSX version either.

As for games... Everyone's different but as a big fan of the Xbox during the 360 era, the Xbox Series have no (exclusive) games that have appealed to me personally. And the ones that I am excited about (Fable, State of Decay 3, Everwild) have no release dates and are almost certainly years away.

load more comments (1 replies)

[+] comicallycluttered@beehaw.org 6 points 11 months ago

[deleted]

[-] Zapp@beehaw.org 4 points 11 months ago

As a current Switch owner deciding what to pick up next time I spring for a new system, the lack of anything portable from Microsoft and Sony is kinda wild to me.

[-] SturgiesYrFase@lemmy.ml 3 points 11 months ago

I still rock my Vita, and it makes me unreasonably angry that Sony didn't seem to take it seriously.

load more comments (2 replies)

[-] spacedogroy@feddit.uk 3 points 11 months ago

I don't think it's hardware, more brand and exclusives. The casual player bought a PlayStation 4, so they buy a PlayStation 5. The gaming enthusiast knows that there's just more varied and interesting games coming out on Sony's platform. In terms of performance, the Xbox also frequently under performs against the PS5 regularly (not by significant margins usually, but still) when on paper it should be the more powerful console.

Myself, I have an Xbox Series S along with a crappy old 1080p plasma and 3 years of Game Pass, and I'm at a time in my life where I don't have the time I used to to play loads of games all the time. I'm happy with the Series S, but if you're coming fresh to this generation of consoles, I can't see why you wouldn't just buy PS5 as that's where the games are.

load more comments (2 replies)

[-] thingsiplay@kbin.social 2 points 11 months ago

@Hdcase Microsoft has a focus as publisher to publish on PC/Steam, Playstation and Switch, alongside mobile platform and TVs with pre installed streaming and access to Game Pass. The Xbox consoles is only a slice of the entire eco system Microsoft is building up.

Gaming