Not disagreeing that the US does a lot of fuckery in the middle east but I think it's ultimately the UK that started the mess.
EDIT: West Texas is pretty empty. Israel can have it all.
this post was submitted on 29 Oct 2024
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That mess is older than even the UK. The Ottoman Empire cobbled together peoples who didn’t have anything to do with each other way earlier.
Random Youtube video that I’m parrotting without double-checking: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JN4mnVLP0rU
Youtube videos are a disaster in historical accuracy.
The Ottoman empire was stable. They had beef with Armenia. But that only turned into the Armenian genocide after the Turks turned secular.
The empire was not a beacon of wealth but it was nothing like the crackpot the middle east has turned into since British and French colonialism.
that only turned into the Armenian genocide after the Turks turned secular.
They never turned secular while still being Ottoman Empire. It was formally a Caliphate. The Ottoman Sultan called himself Caliph among other things. It had "nations" separated on religious basis inside, with their own governing hierarchy etc.
There was a short era of Tanzimat, which is treated by people ignorant of history as some sort of it turning into a civilized state, but it was still monarchy, and Christians were still slaves. It was, however, enough for Muslims to feel a lot of hate because of even the appearance of some kind of emancipation.
I had to do a double check on my history. What I said is correct but not "technically correct."
The CUP which primarily consisted of The Young Turks was the organisation spearheading the Armenian genocide. They were also the organisation responsible for the Turkish revolution.
The genocide did technically happen under the Ottoman empire, but it was led by the CUP group who overthrew the empire.
Their primary group The Young Turks then conflated into the party of Ataturk which was responsible for secular Turkey.
was the organisation spearheading the Armenian genocide.
Turks like that narrative, but the Armenian genocide honestly incorporates Hamidian massacres and many other massacres before.
It is undeniable the Ottoman empire was complicit and participated in the Armenian genocide. However this was never standard practice before the end of the empire. And it was led by groups which took over the empire.
This does not absolve the Ottoman empire of blame for it. They still did do dun it. But there is a clear direct correlation between the rise of the CUP from within its ranks and its sudden urge for race driven genocides.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_Ottoman_genocides
The late Ottoman genocides is a historiographical theory which sees the concurrent Armenian, Greek, and Assyrian genocides[1][2][3] that occurred during the 1910s–1920s as parts of a single event rather than separate events, which were initiated by the Young Turks
There is a correlation, but massacres of civilian population were nothing unusual for the Ottoman Empire of any time.
The Ottomans were quite permissive of other cultures, you just has to pay higher tax as a non-muslim, but they left you in peace.
After the British conspired to incite uprisings in the Ottomans, that's when they came down hard on their subjects to quell any further uprisings (it didn't work)
you just has to pay higher tax as a non-muslim, but they left you in peace.
No they didn't leave you in peace, just the tax part wasn't optional.
https://www.britannica.com/place/Ottoman-Empire/Classical-Ottoman-society-and-administration
Scroll down to "The purpose of the millet system was..." and let me know what you think
Da fuck is dat.
I knew Britannica was low, but not that low. Holy shit.
(For those who didn't follow the link) The main ethnic conflict problem of the Ottoman Empire was apparently not perpetual small-scale extermination of Christians and Yazidis, but the fact that some Christians still existed in, ya knaw, Eastern Roman, Assyrian and Armenian lands, and to flavor that turd they wrote something about blood libel against Jews - in the Ottoman empire, o-ho-ho.
I still think its fair to blame whoever is responsible for allowing the current Israel to be founded. Just should not have happened.
That was mostly England. The Balfour Declaration kicked it all off, and then post WW1 British Colonialism locked it in, even though the people who founded Israel were actively fighting England to do so.
Missing a few flags there.
The UK def missing.
The vast majority of earths problems can be traced back to the brits. Including America.
British financiers who turned reasonable banking practices into speculative stock market bullshit, which created our "endless growth" economy and basically necessitated the natural resources colonialism brought in
Utah? We should have created it in Germany. We were already partitioning the country, they started the Holocaust which necessitated a Jewish homeland, and most of the people who would move to Israel were from Europe and used to its climate.
Yep, shoulda just done this
That said the zionist movement predates WW2, and the balfour declaration is one of the major culprits, so carving out half of england would've also been a solution.
Jokes aside if it was only about having a safe space for the jewish they would have taken the Jewish Autonomous Oblast but they wanted that specific region for historical reasons and that is why they would have rejected the South German State of Israel the same way they ultimately rejected the Jewish Autonomous Oblast and by shrinking the German State (East and West combined compared to the Weimar Republic) to 1/3 of their previous size you would effectively end up with some hybrid form of the Palestine problem and the Donbass problem.
Personally I would have chosen an island like Sardegna where random invasions from your neighbours are unlikely but I think at the end they'd still have resettled Palestine even if you gave them the whole of Britain.
Half is maybe too much, but a portion of Bavaria bordering Austria and Czechoslovakia would make sense. With a piece of Danube too. Looks nice and useful for transportation of goods.
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You just invented mormons again
"After a long and exhaustive investigation we found that we did nothing wrong"
This is a shit shitpost.
Because the Mormons took the land from the natives 'first'.
There have been continual problems in the middle east for thousands of years before the USA existed.
Yeah it's all the fault of those damn Egyptians constantly fighting with Hittites! This does absolve USA and Israel, see?
Shiites and Sunnis have been fighting each other for the last 1400 years
We are not living thousands of years ago tho.
God didn't give the Jews Utah, they got from the Nile in Egypt to the Euphrates in Iraq. So say the magic scrolls.
Which should pretty much be understood as the Zionist goal to claim as the lands of Israel. They will not stop until they have it. They will keep doing incremental land grabs after wars that they goad others into starting, as they have done with Palestine.
Regardless of whether the magic scrolls were ever the reason, they aren’t now, at least not for many Jews. Most Jews aren’t even really religious. The magic scrolls are a rationalization, an excuse, not a reason. The reason is Western settler-colonialism.
Why not Germany?
Well too be fair, Lawrence of Arabia tapped into existing resentment up forment his revolt
There's always been differing interests in the middle east, whether it's religious, ethnic or something else. To say otherwise takes away from the agency of the people living there
Hasn't the middle east been around for like 30x as long as the US has though
US is not free of blame of course but it was the colonial powers that ruled the region who intentionally started the fire.
That area has been the subject of war and destruction since it was first settled thousands of years ago. The colonial powers and later the US didn't help but let's not act like that area was ever anything but an ongoing war.
4,000 years according to the Bible.
Same as the moon then.
At one point, Grand Island (NY) was proposed as a Jewish homeland. Definitely not enough room.
Definitely way too many people in Utah. The environment here is stressed. Not even talking about the political environment. Already way too many religious extremists.
We kind of did create israel in utah. But for people who thought Jesus came over to America with the pilgrims and that they have magic underwear that will shield them from harm rather than for the people who thought that their God told them to cut part of their kids' penises off, they couldn't eat shellfish, and used to commit genocides on the reg but has inexplicably stopped for the last couple thousand years or so.
Judging by the downvotes, a lot of Lemmitors have no idea how the world works. Just living in the Marvel Cinematic Universe—must be nice.
Lemmings
Counter productive and hypocritical to put people into convenient groups like that to shield your opinions against any form of criticism. Well done, you've earned a block.
It would be nice to see the genocidal religions being squarely blamed rather than the nations that are infested with them.
hint: its all of them
ahh yes the settler colonialism religion