Compare the histories of the DPRK and actual settler colonialist states like the US. Only one of those has anything to be patriotic about.
this post was submitted on 10 Oct 2023
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PatSoc seems to be an Anglo-European, mainly US phenomenon; it shouldn't be imposed on other societies as if it's a universal category.
Patriotism to a coloniser state means loyalty to it's colonising history and character. It's a call for redistributing the spoils of imperialism rather than ending imperialism, with some noises about ending imperialism at some unknown date in the future.
Kim Jong Un did speak about the need for patriotism. But the patriotism of a socialist state that has recently cut off colonial overlords has a different character to that of the patriotism of those ex-overlords. The one means patriotism for oppression , the other, as in the DPRK, is a call to be loyal to anti-imperialism.
This is a big can of worms. I'd caution against listening to anyone who calls the DPRK patsoc.
Current events provide another example: it would be bizarre to claim that a Palestinian Marxist is a PatSoc. Palestinian 'patriotism' (if that's the right word for it – I'm not entirely convinced) would look very different to Israeli patriotism.
Edit: this isn't a view steeped in literature; it's hard to divine what self-proclaimed patsocs themselves think because they're too tedious and wrong to engage with for prolonged periods. So treat this more as 'preliminary comments'.
Absolute meaningless nonsense.
"PatSocs" don't really exist, for one. It's an entirely online, entirely grifter-run "organization" to whatever extent they do exist.
Secondly, they are a reactionary, western-centric ideology. All ten of them.
And lastly, I can only assume somebody saw/heard "patriot socialist" and saw that the DPRK has a nationalistic bend to it (reinforced by US-imposed isolation btw) and just equated the two. I really can't overstate how utterly meaningless and effectively non-existent the patsocs are.
Holy shit this is the same thing i was saying ever since entire patsoc hysteria exploded on r/GenZedong back then, and all i got for that were bans from several "tankie" subs. Btw all of those subs later bothsided Ukraine so lmao.
The Maoist said "Kim Jong Un is a fellow traveler of fascists"
Laugh out loud stupid
I'm watching a video made by an MLM(?) about PatSoc, and they lumped Pol Pot and Ceauşescu with Kim Jong Un. They claimed that Juche abandoned ML and embraced Korean ultranationalism, citing Songun as an example. Thoughts on that line?
made by an MLM
Stopped reading here, they call anything and everything under the sun revisionist
Wen eta Maoism-Hoxhaism unity under the leadership of Comrade Wisconcom?
MLM is more well-known as an abbreviation for somehow legal pyramid schemes.
To your question, I’d simply ask the question of is Kim’s leadership an overall asset or detriment to the people of the DPRK.
MLM is more well-known as an abbreviation for somehow legal pyramid schemes.
Actually interesting you say this, I remember using MLM for Marxism–Leninism–Maoism for years before suddenly all my ex-friends and barely acquaintences started trying to con me into their makeup hustles.
The further left the community is, the more likely Marxism–Leninism–Maoism ends up being the default assumption of a no-context use of MLM.
I figured that was what it must have meant despite never seeing that abbreviation’s use.
For the so-called Maoists, cope and seethe. You don’t win the abbreviation but you can have the dunk tank as consolation.
All I know is that anyone who said that probably isn't even in a socialist country 🤷🏽. If people assert opinions with no evidence, you can just as easily wisp them away.
Their evidence is "The Cleanest Race", a book by a Statesian "DPRK expert" arguing that Juche is not communism, but rather a far-right ideology inspired by Japanese fascism.
So, they basically have no evidence
I wrote a long comment about this a few days ago (not about the DPRK specifically, but still very relevant)
that was a great read! thanks for that write-up
So stupid it's funny