this post was submitted on 23 Nov 2024
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Lemmy: "You've got nothing to worry about. They'll only institutionalize you if you're a danger to yourself or others."
Also Lemmy: "If we don't revolt we're all gonna die."
Honestly, I'm perfectly sane and living a great life but even I recognize that without a revolution, the US will not get better
as somebody who went to the silly house twice in his teenage years, let me tell you, it is not a fun place to be. they have harsh fluorescent lights, cold floors, very limited privacy, and you are constantly surrounded by staff members, as well as other people who are struggling with their mental health. there is often little to do except talk with the other patients (in front of the staff) and sit around counting the days until your release. needless to say they don't let you have strings of any kind on your clothing and they monitor everything that goes in or out of the place.
what surprised me the most, though, is that you're not even guaranteed to talk to a therapist every day. i thought that was supposed to be the whole point of it all. but instead, it's just a whole lot of waiting with nothing to do.
of course, i would much rather that somebody experience all of that rather than take their own life, i just think the whole experience of the mental hospitals is rather harsh and cold for what they're trying to accomplish.
I ended up committed over a decade ago and when I left I said to anyone who would listen that next time I get like that just send me to the Caribbean for an all inclusive beach vacation. I’d get more out of it and it would cost a whole lot less.
(I’m from the US where healthcare is a luxury)
What country was this? All of what you said is true, except that I had a private room that consisted of just a bed. I guess maybe it depends on what your normal life is or how for profit a place is, but I have some good memories.
It was the only time in my life that I was around people where we could understand eachother. People treated me well. Normally I was the outsider with the messed up life but everyone else there had problems too. I met some very interesting people there that I never would have seen otherwise. You could actually tell people about yourself. And they had lots of activities that I normally didn't have access to.
this was in the united states, but the experience probably differs quite a bit from state to state. where i was, there weren’t that many activities besides a deck of cards and occasionally some TV in the evening (usually nature channels or something similar). i did get quite good at shuffling cards due to all the free time and limitless access to playing cards.
i can relate to what you said about people treating me well and having interesting conversations there, and it is very nice to talk to other people who might be going through some similar problems. what you said about actually being able to talk about yourself is very true, and that part was also super nice. there’s a culture of “what happens in the mental institutions stays in the mental institutions” that seems to permeate them. i think it helps people open up a lot more and leads to some very interesting conversations that likely wouldn’t be possible elsewhere. in my case at least, not having much else to do probably also meant that people were more incentivized to try to find more interesting things to talk about.
i’m pretty sure the places i went to were for profit (awesome how that works by the way), so that probably corrupted things a good bit. it really felt like the primary goal was “containment” instead of being a therapeutic experience. it felt very sterile and cold, but some of the other patients made it a nicer experience than it otherwise would have been. it’s also worth mentioning that both of these places were a small section of a much larger hospital and that certainly didn’t help things very much.
although it sounds like you had a much nicer experience, which is good to hear. it sounds like what you went through is a lot closer to how i think these places “should” be run.
I was lucky that the place I was at provided activities and better food than I was used to. But there really wasn't much actual therapy and the meds didn't help.
It's been 20 years and I would definitely say it was only the other patients that provided me any long term benefit. Really let me see through my own problems and understand stuff that other people went through too.
For example the girl who somehow managed to get through life despite having full on hallucinations of a guy playing a solo guitar session 24 hours a day.
Or another girl who had her stomach pumped from a suicide attempt. She had a birth defect that unfortunately made her look like a goblin just without the green skin. Hope she turned out ok everyone felt for her.
Also met the first probably trans person before I knew that even existed. The facility kept apologizing for misplacing a girl with the boys for a week based on appearances alone. But they were like seemed fine to be there.
i just think the whole experience of the mental hospitals is rather harsh and cold for what they’re trying to accomplish.
A system is what it does. They're trying to accomplish control and conformity, not genuinely help people in distress, otherwise these places wouldn't exist since they have very little therapeutic value and increase distress exponentially (this isn't to say that people who work in there don't genuinely want to help, but you can't from within an ableist capitalist white supremacist patriarchal cis heteronormative framework. Also there are unfortunately plenty of people who go in to these jobs on a power trip looking for access to vulnerable people to abuse, and that same framework lets them).
E: I'm in the UK where this is all also the case, as I suspect it is in most places.
"I would much rather that somebody experience all of that rather than take their own life"
That is so far from being your decisions that the fact you feel entitled to imprison someone for it is FUCKING INSANE TO ME.
if I ever end up in that situation, there will be a fucking bloodbath before I allow them to STRIP ME OF ALL AUTONOMY AND RIGHTS.
The very idea ENRAGES ME INTO A BLOOD FRENZY.
nowhere did i say it was my decision. i was simply expressing my belief that a week (or less) of suffering is better than being dead forever.
People in this thread should say which country they are referring to. I somehow doubt that legal requirements and professional standards are the same everywhere.
It's the default country. It always is on lemmy.
Where I live every can do a 48 hour hold before a judge comes by and says let em go. The one time I got pulled in for suicidal ideation I just said "listen, I don't currently have a plan and I've been sucidal for months. You're not going to fix whats wrong with me or reduce my base risk by holding me in 48 hours and I will be AMA with a judge at the end of those 48 hours. Just let me go." And so they did.
Any time I get a new therapist or psychiatrist, I always make them promise in the first session that they won't have me committed, and if they won't promise then I find a new provider
I don't want to burst your bubble with a subjective perception but it’s my understanding that for psychiatrist ~~lying~~ framing is part of the job. There goal is not to be truthful but to try and help you. They probably sincerely hope they wont need to break your trust but they cant take responsibility for the risk of breaking protocol if such situation is assessed.
I think for therapists they don't have the authority to do so and would need to report the situation to a doctor/psychiatrist to make that decision.
Now on a more positive side, i have said some utterly insane stuff to some and its very clear they only commit when there is very immediate and concrete risk for danger.
There is a big difference between saying you want to die or experience urges/fantasies/horror. Its another to say you believe you are going to do something when you get home. In which case they are obligated to try and safe life.
Milage may very on country/culture/peoplex
I'm a therapist in Florida USA, and my duty to report is the same as a psychiatrist's- legally required if under 18yrs, and "ethically obligated" if 18+ (obviously up to provider's informed discretion though)
I give them a false address anyway so they couldn't commit me if they tried lol
With my own clients, I try to get their permission ahead of time to make that decision for them should it come to that. If they don't give me permission, I won't ever have them involuntarily committed. I have convinced a client to go voluntarily once though, and gave them a ride myself
Hey, your lovely sounding treatment of patients aside, I don't wanna miss this lol, are you saying you as a therapist give your own psychiatrist fake home addresses for yourself, one specific reason being so that they cannot involuntarily commit you...?
That would be hilarious, sobering, and several other things I don't really have words for. It's like doctors who broadly seem to agree that end of life "care" is a travesty and have their own exit plan that doesn't involve it.
(To be clear I'm not at all implying hypocrisy from you whatsoever, in case that could possibly be read into my comment, you made it clear you refuse to do the thing you're taking interesting steps to avoid)
Yes, that's right lol
Lol, eff. Cheers friend.
Therapists and psychologists are the craziest out of all of us.
Well...I kind of agree and already know, but I think that joke and semi-truth, taken too far, can be borderline disrespectful and diminishing of their work. I say that with a life full of folks connected in various ways, I assume your comment comes from a similar place.
Yes, it's something I've heard from the psychologists themselves. They seem to take a certain pride in it, or at least the ones I've known have. I didn't intend to diminish the work they do, which is to provide a critical service towards our understanding of humanity.
Probably me just being sensitive, cheers!
It's a fascinating field of study, and my psychology, sociology, and anthropology classes were some of my favorite classes in college. My psych 101 class was like someone lifting a veil from my eyes.
Edit: autocorrect
Who are you giving a false address to?
All you need to do is say no you're not thinking of hurting yourself. No you're not thinking of hurting others. You just sound hostile and crazy if you demand things like you are.
Glob forbid therapists made us feel safe, eh.. 😑
If this applies to you, please read the tips in this post: https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/03/22/navigating-and-or-avoiding-the-inpatient-mental-health-system/
It’s down to are you a danger to yourself or others. There is the 72hr hold to evaluate just that but as someone partaking in those evals you can be let go fairly quickly when there’s no evidence of danger to self or others. It’s up to 72hrs not a total of 72hrs required.
If you’re delivered to the Emergency Room after a suicide attempt that is evidence of danger to self. It is also a psych history item that creates a red flag on you being more likely to cross that line in the future. But it’s still not typically enough to commit you. People leave days after their attempts, you can’t just restrain everyone who might go there on a maybe.
Also, every state has different rules on how being committed or chaptered or whatever it is labeled in that state plays out.
You’re allowed to be anxious and weird. Or an asshole. Or all three. Look at Cluster B. It’s such an intense and mentally destructive section of disorders but even being that person isn’t enough for commitment unless you’re a physical danger. Degree of functionality, or ability to care for yourself in, say, your own apartment while living solo also factors in, but even so. It’s not easy or something an ethical psychiatrist would easily entertain based on weirdness alone.
I lie to therapists because I'm homicidal 🌚
Being involuntarily committed is incredibly rare these days outside of dangerous felony criminal behavior, and even then it's still incredibly rare.
I've been committed twice for confessing suicidal intentions. For the amount of people in the psych ward committed for drug induced psychosis is fairly high.
Yeah, suicide is one of the things that'll do it. Drug induced psychosis often includes some pretty felonious behavior, or at least it has for everyone I've known.
I hope you are doing better these days. If not, then keep on keeping on, friend.
So many times that I cross my fingers on camera. I mean, seriously, who DOESN’T think about killing themselves every day?
DOPPELGÄNGER!
The scariest pink piece of paper in the world.
At least it comes with grippy socks
she cute
Reminds me of Mr robot
Pretty sure my therapist can’t have me hospitalised. What does this even mean?
If you admit to having thoughts of self harm they will have you involuntarily institutionalized
In many jurisdictions of the United States, the police can have someone involuntarily committed to a psych ward if their mental health is at a state where they present a clear danger to themselves or others. In Florida, for example, this is called the Baker Act. Therapists in various jurisdictions may be required or strongly recommended to call the police and have someone institutionalized if they are expressing immediate desire to commit suicide or homicide. Even if there were the best of intentions it's a goddamn farce.