this post was submitted on 06 Aug 2023

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Florida eyes "classical" education agenda (www.axios.com)

submitted 1 year ago by GiddyGap@lemmy.world to c/politics@lemmy.world

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[–] NewEnglandRedshirt@lemmy.world 50 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Social studies teacher here. You know why we don't teach the "classical" education model anymore? Because it relies on memorization and lacks any real critical thinking or analysis. It whitewashes history and devalues the contributions of anyone outside the white, European mainstream.

Just looking at the available sample questions for the grade 8 test, there is no real analysis beyond simple textual understanding ("what it says in the text"). There are no sample questions that actually require a student to write. The writing questions are almost entirely correcting grammatical mistakes. On a complexity scale, there are generally 4 "levels" of questions, with 4 being the most complex, which typically would require an essay response. None of the questions asked go above a complexity of level 2.

And don't get me started on the inherent biases of the texts chosen. The "literature," "historical/founding documents" and "philosophy/religion" texts chosen are all by dead white men: Kipling, Plato, Cicero, Jefferson, Kempis, Eisenhower. The only author who wasn't a dead white man is a dead white woman: George Eliot.

Both science passages have to do with modern medicine, the contents of which are far from controversial: antivenom and cardiovascular health. That isn't to say that there is anything wrong with this, but again, there is nothing that even allows for critical analysis here.

So... yeah... definitely glad I'm not in Florida

[–] dynamojoe@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago

and lacks any real critical thinking or analysis.

That's kind of their goal. If you can't think for yourself, they'll happily do it for you.

[–] YoBuckStopsHere@lemmy.world 46 points 1 year ago (2 children)

By classical they mean abusing children, religious grooming, and whitewashed history.

[–] Hairyblue@kbin.social 15 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Yep. If you are an LGBT child, they don't care about you. They want to put religious grooming for Christian Nationalism in the schools. And they don't want you to know that slavery is bad. It was a free job training program.

Stop voting for Republicans. They don't care about our rights or education.

[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago

Yep. If you are an LGBT child, they don’t care about you.

That's not true at all. They care very much about making sure you're mistreated at taxpayer expense.

[+] MasterObee@lemmy.world -11 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Not caring about someones sexuality and gender identity should be the model.

Why do teachers need to push culture and push LGBTQIA2S+ ideologies?

[–] Falmarri@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Explain the ideologies you're talking about. What, specifically, is being pushed. And how exactly does this pushing occur

[–] MasterObee@lemmy.world -4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Gender and sexual ideologies are being pushed by universities, which I don't really have a problem with, but in public schools I do.

These gender transitioning videos aimed towards k-5 graders is a prime example of how this push occurs https://www.seattleschools.org/departments/health-education/lgbtq-programs-curriculum-and-support/list-of-books-by-grade/

[–] Falmarri@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You never defined what "gender and sexual ideologies" were. What exactly do you have a problem with. I'm not going to watch an hour and a half of videos, which most likely just say it's ok if you're trans, and trans people exist.

[–] MasterObee@lemmy.world -4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I have a problem with school districts teaching kindergartners that if they're sad they can cross dress and be happy :)

[–] lingh0e@lemmy.film 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Good thing that's not what they teach in kindergarten. Do you even have kids?

[–] MasterObee@lemmy.world -3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

https://www.seattleschools.org/departments/health-education/lgbtq-programs-curriculum-and-support/list-of-books-by-grade/

Well, they are...so...

[–] lingh0e@lemmy.film 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

You keep posting that link as if it means something. I've already responded. Half a dozen other people have already responded. Tolerance and acceptance are not bad things to be teaching kids, no matter how icky you think it is.

Seriously. Do you have kids?

[–] MasterObee@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You keep posting that link as if it means something.

Because y'all all have the same comments that it's not happening, and I keep proving y'all wrong. No it's funny that you've seen the link posted, yet you still say it isn't happening. I don't care to continue a conversation with someone willingly ignorant.

Tolerance and acceptance are not bad things to be teaching kids, no matter how icky you think it is.

We've always taught those, why do we need special sexuality and gender ideology tolerance and acceptance? Why aren't you pushing for nepalisian acceptance, you're a bigot, aren't you?

Seriously. Do you have kids?

More than you could imagine

[–] Falmarri@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Because y'all all have the same comments that it's not happening, and I keep proving y'all wrong.

What are you proving wrong? That you don't support tolerance? No one is disputing that

[–] Falmarri@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

So you have a problem with a boy wearing a skirt? What's the issue with that? I assume you think girls shouldn't wear pants then?

[–] MasterObee@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

So you have a problem with a boy wearing a skirt?

No, I have problems with teachers taking kids away from parents at the threat of having CPS called on them, and telling 5year old boys if they wear skirts they'll be happy.

[–] Falmarri@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Which teachers have taken kids away? And what's the context for a teacher telling someone they'll be happy if they wear skirts?

[–] MasterObee@lemmy.world -3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Which teachers have taken kids away?

The government takes kids away from parents if we don't send them to their re-education institutions

And what’s the context for a teacher telling someone they’ll be happy if they wear skirts?

Seattles public school programs to educate 5 year olds on gender identity https://www.seattleschools.org/departments/health-education/lgbtq-programs-curriculum-and-support/list-of-books-by-grade/

[–] Falmarri@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

The government takes kids away from parents if we don’t send them to their re-education institutions

Lol. This would be good trolling if it wasn't so stupid.

And continuing to post that link isn't going to make it somehow fit into your delusions.

[–] archomrade@midwest.social 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

No, I have problems with teachers taking kids away from parents at the threat of having CPS called on them, and telling 5year old boys if they wear skirts they’ll be happy.

...What? You're upset that a teacher might tell a child they can wear a skirt if it makes them happy? Or you're upset that CPS might get involved if you abuse your child? I'm confused, it really just sounds like you want the right to abuse your child if they dress in a skirt, and you don't want teachers telling your kid it's fine to do so.

[–] MasterObee@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

…What? You’re upset that a teacher might tell a child they can wear a skirt if it makes them happy?

Yes, I don't want teachers having secret meetings with my kids, without my knowledge, telling them to wear skirts. It's weird, inappropriate and absurdly outside of the teachers realm of usefulness to taxpayers.

[–] archomrade@midwest.social 0 points 1 year ago

secret meetings with my kids

telling them to wear skirts

You sound a little paranoid, my dude. Being unscrupulous with how things are being framed to you when it involves something you find weird is what makes people assume you are a bigot, not that you have "different views". A teacher that tells a student "it's ok to dress how you feel most comfortable" is different from a teacher that tells a student "you ought to dress in girls clothing". And if a student then says "my mom and dad will punish me if I don't wear boys clothes", not only should they, but a teacher is required by law to report that interaction to CPS.

We wouldn't need to teach students about gender if parents weren't actively shaming or punishing their kids in order to force them to perform their sex in a way that makes them feel uncomfortable. That you think of male genitalia when you see a kid dressed in boys clothes is not a problem with the teacher sexualizing them, it's a problem with you sexualizing them.

[–] lingh0e@lemmy.film 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I get how those topics can make you feel a little squirrelly, but the overall message is tolerance and compassion. Is it really that terrible to instill those values in kids? When I was in elementary school there were definitely kids who were bullied for being perceived as gay even though none of us really understood what that meant aside from "that's a boy who likes other boys". I really wish I could go back and smack some sense into my younger self, but also smack some sense into the adults at the time for letting us act like miniature assholes.

[–] MasterObee@lemmy.world -2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

is tolerance and compassion.

Okay, when we spend much much much much more money on schooling our kids and they graduate and the teachers say 'hey, they didn't learn math...or science...or how to read, but we taught them to have compassion for our ideologies' you think parents are gonna be happy?

Is it really that terrible to instill those values in kids?

No, but that's always been done. Instruction on queerness and gender igeology isn't about compassion, it's about pushing ideas on kids when we send them to government agents, instead of actually teaching them.

bullied for being perceived as gay

Okay, has bullying aimed at anyone been okay in the school system? Have you had a teacher teach you that you can only bully gay people? We've always said don't bully anyone, are gay people not under the 'anyone' umbrella?

. I really wish I could go back and smack some sense into my younger self, but also smack some sense into the adults at the time for letting us act like miniature assholes.

Okay, so this whole thing is about you feeling bad for bullying gay people. Don't push gender ideologies onto our kindergartners because you were a dick in school.

[–] lingh0e@lemmy.film 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Okay, when we spend much much much much more money on schooling our kids and they graduate and the teachers say 'hey, they didn't learn math...or science...or how to read, but we taught them to have compassion for our ideologies' you think parents are gonna be happy?

What the hell are you even talking about? Do you think school boards will replace math, reading and science with gender equality lessons? Seriously, what the hell are you talking about?

Is it really that terrible to instill those values in kids?

No, but that's always been done.

If that were the case you obviously got a shitty education, because you don't seem to have even a basic understanding of tolerance or compassion

Instruction on queerness and gender igeology isn't about compassion, it's about pushing ideas on kids when we send them to government agents, instead of actually teaching them.

Again, what the hell are you talking about? Kids are being taught normal things ALONGSIDE learning how to not be ignorant goons who say shit like "don't push gender ideologies on kids".

bullied for being perceived as gay

Oh, you're one of those "all lives matter" folks? Yes, let's teach kids not to bully anyone... but let's also teach them that LGBTQ people exist and there's nothing wrong with being friends with them. Given the recent rhetoric against marginalized communities, both from religious leaders and conservative politicians, YES I think it's important to stress the fact that these people exist and are worthy of love is an important lesson for our kids to learn.

. I really wish I could go back and smack some sense into my younger self, but also smack some sense into the adults at the time for letting us act like miniature assholes.

Okay, so this whole thing is about you feeling bad for bullying gay people. Don't push gender ideologies onto our kindergartners because you were a dick in school.

Yes, I feel bad for being an ignorant kid. Yes, I wish there had been people who could have talked to kids like me about basic concepts like tolerance, acceptance and compassion. But no, I'm not "pushing" anything on anyone. Not because of any kind of misguided guilt or for any other reason. I'm literally just hoping my kids don't grow into people... well... people like you.

There's no "agenda". Kids aren't being "indoctrinated" or "groomed". Kids are just being taught that people are different and that's not a reason to be a dick.

Sorry you have trouble with it. Maybe if you had had someone to teach you these basic concepts you wouldn't find it so icky.

[–] MasterObee@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago

What the hell are you even talking about? Do you think school boards will replace math, reading and science with gender equality lessons?

No. I think they're replaced with instruction on transitioning, cross dressing, gender questioning and queer ideological pushes. If you want to teach kids to cross dress, you gotta cut into some other instruction, do you disagree?

If that were the case you obviously got a shitty education, because you don’t seem to have even a basic understanding of tolerance or compassion

Because I don't care that people are straight, or gay or cross dress or a different race, I don't have tolerance? Because I treat every individual, regardless of differences, the same, I don't have compassion?

Yes, let’s teach kids not to bully anyone…

Sweet, now we can teach kids how to read because inner city kids have the reading levels of neanderthals.

Yes, I feel bad for being an ignorant kid.

So you're forcing your think on everyone elses kids because you can't come to grips that you were an asshole.

There’s no “agenda”.

Never said there was.

Kids aren’t being “indoctrinated” or “groomed”.

If I took your kid into a room, at threat of calling CPS on you, and taught them that they should cross dress, is that indoctrinating or grooming?

Sorry you have trouble with it. Maybe if you had had someone to teach you these basic concepts you wouldn’t find it so icky

I don't find it 'icky', believe it or not, I don't like all the same things you do. I've been to some drag brunches and queer bars and what not, not my thing, most of it I think is weird. But do I have a bias against it or find it 'icky'? Nah. That's the problem with you and all your far left friends here, if someone doesn't agree 100% with the shit y'all do, you think we're bigots and hate the people that do it. I don't, it's just not my vibe. I also don't think catholic church is my vibe, but I'm fine with the folk.

[–] Captainvaqina@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

They don't "push" them. They accept them for who they are.

I know that's difficult for you worthless bigots to understand. Good thing the entire planet is leaving you people and your regressivness in the dust.

[–] MasterObee@lemmy.world -3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

They don’t “push” them. They accept them for who they are.

So teachers only have to say 'hey I accept students for differences' then they don't talk about gender or sexuality ideologies in classes? What's happening here: https://www.seattleschools.org/departments/health-education/lgbtq-programs-curriculum-and-support/list-of-books-by-grade/

[–] Captainvaqina@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That is called acceptance. I know you theocratic fascists want to erase everyone different than you while whitewashing slavery, but that isn't going to happen.

You're gonna have to learn how to not be a bigot if you want to be accepted into society.

[–] MasterObee@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago

So teachers only have to say ‘hey I accept students for differences’ then they don’t talk about gender or sexuality ideologies in classes?

Really simple question, man, can you not answer it?

I know you theocratic fascists want to erase everyone different than you while whitewashing slavery, but that isn’t going to happen.

HAHAHA you can't attack my argument, so you make up a belief system for me and attack me on your made up scenario? what a joke.

You’re gonna have to learn how to not be a bigot if you want to be accepted into society.

Me: I don't care what skin color you have, what gender or who you wanna bang, I'll treat you exactly the same as everyone else

You: WE NEED TO TREAT PEOPLE DIFFERENTLY BASED ON RACE AND SEXUAL ORIENTATION. ANYONE WHO DOESN'T BELIEVE THIS IS A BIGOT FASCIST THEOCRATIC NAZI

[–] pozbo@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

You own that url? Seen you post that bs like 30x, only reason I can figure is that you get a slice of that sweet sweet ad revenue..

Anyway, everyone dislikes your stance and nobody is going to stop you from spreading your drivel. have a great evening.

Edit: came back to say.. not everyone dislikes your stance, I'm sure any impressionable children you've groomed into repeating your drivel don't mind.

[–] MasterObee@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You own that url? Seen you post that bs like 30x, only reason I can figure is that you get a slice of that sweet sweet ad revenue…

Ahhhh, yes I own the Seattle schools url.

Anyway, everyone dislikes your stance

Uh, yeah, any opinion on here and reddit that aren't far left get downvoted for no other reason other than I think differently than the far left talking points.

not everyone dislikes your stance

Correct, about 50% of the united states are willing to say they agree with me. more like 80% actually agree, but just don't want to be labeled a bigot everywhere they go for thinking 'wrong'

I’m sure any impressionable children you’ve groomed into repeating your drivel don’t mind.

So when I tell kids about my opinions it's grooming, bu you're for educating kindergartners to cross dress, and that's not grooming? Holy smokes, look in the mirro, homie.

[–] pozbo@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

Hey I'm just happy to have wasted some of your time while you quote and unpack my entire comment haha. Have a great evening 😀

[–] lolcatnip@reddthat.com 1 points 1 year ago

They don't. Repeating a lie does not, in fact, make it true.

[–] taanegl@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 year ago

Uniforms, lineups, the comeback of the ruler...

Here's the thing about the ruler: it's not used to measure anything else but the students pain threshold.

[–] randon31415@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

Classical education = Assessments that if you could use Google, you can get a 100%

[–] MasterObee@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Our education system has been failing for the last 20+ years. We spend much much much more per student than peer countries, and we have shit results.

I don't know the answer, but somethings gotta change, it seems like a fundamental systematic problem. What do we think a solution could be?

[–] NewEnglandRedshirt@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

For starters, recognizing that most of the problems our students face cannot be solved by schools, no matter how much money we throw at them? We need our entire society to change. As a teacher, there is literally nothing I can do about the poverty, racism, access to Healthcare, or other sources of inequality outside the school. Society as a whole needs to change first.

[+] MasterObee@lemmy.world -9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

For starters, recognizing that most of the problems our students face cannot be solved by schools

Agreed! The push for more social commentary and pushing social ideologies as the 'savior' of our students is absurd.

As a teacher, there is literally nothing I can do about the poverty, racism, access to Healthcare,

All of these metrics have gotten better over the last 60 years, yet our education system is falling being, how are these to blame?

[–] NewEnglandRedshirt@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I love how you truncated my quote so you ignored "other sources of inequality." Because even if the other things had been fixed ("getting better" doesn't mean fixed), there's still nothing I can do to solve the social and economic inequality facing my students.

[+] MasterObee@lemmy.world -6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

other sources of inequality

That's just saying 'etc.' so how am I supposed to ask about 'etc.'? You're just avoiding answering my questions for you. Can you not back up your statements?

[–] NewEnglandRedshirt@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Again, you're picking and choosing what I wrote and ignoring the rest. When you've had a chance to work on your reading comprehension, please let me know.