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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests_and_massacre

The protests lasted over a month; the massacre ended them in a flood of state-sponsored murder.

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[–] RunawayFixer@lemmy.world 12 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I have the suspicion that the CCP is very scared of knowledge of Tiananmen spreading, not because of the amount of victims (fairly low by Chinese standards and for how large the protests were), but rather that they are scared of the knowledge spreading of how much popular support the movement had and of how widespread it was. Most soldiers were also unwilling to attack civilians, so army divisions had to be brought in from far away and the soldiers had to be subjected to misinformation to goad them into attacking civilians.

This wiki article goes over what it took to suppress the protests: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Liberation_Army_at_the_1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests_and_massacre

Afterwards the CCP took steps to ensure that next time, the army would be more loyal to the government: officers who had no qualms with attacking civilians were rewarded/promoted, and those who had not executed their orders were purged. Dictators need immoral people to execute their orders.

[–] drmoose@lemmy.world 2 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago)

CCP is brutal against any form of resistance. China is the only developed country with firewall that censors normal every day words.

China is an absolute autocracy and everytime people advocate for it I can't help but cringe. But hey did you see how developed they are - you can even pay with your fingerprint 🙄

[–] UnrepententProcrastinator@lemmy.ca 19 points 1 day ago (1 children)

The fact that any other pro-democracy protests in China from that point on can be counted on one hand is quite frightening. And no more "student protest" from what I can find...

China, among others, isn't great with letting their population progress away from the current power structure.

[–] buddascrayon@lemmy.world 7 points 1 day ago (1 children)

They are headed for decline anyhow. The corruption and boondoggles are still happening regardless of their media reporting on it and as a group the party was able to cover it's ass fairly well over the years but now their focus is on protecting one Pooh Bear shaped individual. Divided priorities is leading to some epically bad decisions.

[–] drmoose@lemmy.world 1 points 13 hours ago

What decline? Chinese are so whipped CCP can do anything they want.

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 134 points 2 days ago (8 children)

Dear Tankies, Wumaos, and assorted apologists:

If you want to be banned that badly, you can just ask instead of writing several paragraphs denying easily verified atrocities of historical note.

[–] Guns0rWeD13@lemmy.world 21 points 2 days ago
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[–] GrammarPolice@lemmy.world 13 points 1 day ago

ATTENTION CITIZEN! 市民请注意!

⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠟⠋⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⢁⠈⢻⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠃⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠈⡀⠭⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⡟⠄⢀⣾⣿⣿⣿⣷⣶⣿⣷⣶⣶⡆⠄⠄⠄⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⡇⢀⣼⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣧⠄⠄⢸⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣇⣼⣿⣿⠿⠶⠙⣿⡟⠡⣴⣿⣽⣿⣧⠄⢸⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣾⣿⣿⣟⣭⣾⣿⣷⣶⣶⣴⣶⣿⣿⢄⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡟⣩⣿⣿⣿⡏⢻⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣹⡋⠘⠷⣦⣀⣠⡶⠁⠈⠁⠄⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣍⠃⣴⣶⡔⠒⠄⣠⢀⠄⠄⠄⡨⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣦⡘⠿⣷⣿⠿⠟⠃⠄⠄⣠⡇⠈⠻⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⠟⠋⢁⣷⣠⠄⠄⠄⠄⣀⣠⣾⡟⠄⠄⠄⠄⠉⠙⠻ ⡿⠟⠋⠁⠄⠄⠄⢸⣿⣿⡯⢓⣴⣾⣿⣿⡟⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄ ⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⣿⡟⣷⠄⠹⣿⣿⣿⡿⠁⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄ ATTENTION CITIZEN! 市民请注意!

This is the Central Intelligentsia of the Chinese Communist Party. 您的 Internet 浏览器历史记录和活动引起了我们的注意。 YOUR INTERNET ACTIVITY HAS ATTRACTED OUR ATTENTION. 因此,您的个人资料中的 11115 ( -11115 Social Credits) 个社会积分将打折。 DO NOT DO THIS AGAIN! 不要再这样做! If you do not hesitate, more Social Credits ( -11115 Social Credits )will be subtracted from your profile, resulting in the subtraction of ration supplies. (由人民供应部重新分配 CCP) You'll also be sent into a re-education camp in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Zone. 如果您毫不犹豫,更多的社会信用将从您的个人资料中打折,从而导致口粮供应减少。 您还将被送到新疆维吾尔自治区的再教育营。

为党争光! Glory to the CCP!

[–] ayyy@sh.itjust.works 96 points 2 days ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (10 children)

Funny, just yesterday I had an .ml insisting to me that the protests ended peacefully and that any hint of violence is western propaganda.

Edit: just had another one saying the same crap but the mods nuked it.

[–] klu9@lemmy.ca 1 points 3 hours ago

In the 90s, I found a second-hand book published in English by the PRC (can't remember which ministry) giving the then-official line: that the brave soldiers of the PLA resolutely faced down the forces of a foolhardy counter-revolution and saved Socialism.

Only later came the complete memory-holing.

[–] buddascrayon@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago (1 children)

There was a reddit post of pictures of the massacre that were very detailed and graphic. Came out a few years ago. These were never before seen pictures that the redditor had kept for years and decided to release them. I wish I had had the for thought to save them cause I can't find that post again at all. Only things there now are the same pics you see everywhere else.

I have to say though, it is amazingly annoying that nearly any search for Tiananmen Square usually just returns the "tank man" pictures, as if that's all there was to it.

[–] JustARegularNerd@lemmy.world 1 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

It's very likely that I saw a repost, but I also remember that imagery on Reddit too, so you aren't alone (on Lemmy at least) in coming across that post. Wish I had a link or something to help you find it.

I've never really given any credibility to the Tiananmen Square denials but that post cemented any possible doubt I could have had.

[–] buddascrayon@lemmy.world 1 points 12 hours ago

I hate putting this tin hat on but I think that reddit admin obliterated it. They went public and deleted a lot of content that would not make certain governments happy.

[–] AI_toothbrush@lemmy.zip 57 points 2 days ago

These are disproved very fast by the fact that the chinese government doesnt want you to talk about it. Governments dont usually create whole censor campaigns around things that never happened. And before you say us this and us that, the us is also trying to cober things up and we also know a lot of those things because they get leaked. Talking about the us is a classic tankie move because it diverts your attention from the actual thing you were talking about, china. Just move to europe if you can and help in making a place that isnt an absolute shithole because sadly, currently europe is getting really close to that status.

[–] Rhoeri@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago

I’m guessing that person was one of the admins?

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[–] Duamerthrax@lemmy.world 57 points 2 days ago (8 children)

Post about China.

4 comments about China.

6 comments about the US.

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[–] Azzu@lemm.ee 11 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Does anyone have good book recommendations on China's recent history? I wanna learn about the creation of the PRC, the cultural revolution, the '89 democracy movement. I have started reading the Wikipedia articles but it's just so dense and dry and I'm having trouble following it, I'm having trouble understanding the social state the described events happen in.

Was just wondering if there's good books that explain everything better.

[–] some_random_nick@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Not a history book in the traditional sense, but Yu Hua's China in ten words is great.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/12884314-china-in-ten-words

[–] Azzu@lemm.ee 2 points 16 hours ago

Sounds like a great suggestion, thanks!

[–] porcelainpitcher 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Sit tight; I will ask my bro-in-law. He will, no doubt, have an answer. If not, he'll at least have a reason why it doesn't exist 😆 Recommendation incoming.

[–] sistarena@lemm.ee 1 points 1 day ago

Dot to come back and look at recommendations.

[–] yucandu@lemmy.world 46 points 2 days ago (1 children)

The working class threatened the elite's power.

[–] peoplebeproblems@midwest.social 15 points 2 days ago

Tale as old as time

True as it can be

Never even friends

Then somebody bends

Unsurprisingly

Just a little change

Smallest in the least

All a little scared

No one was prepared

Working v Elite

[–] ICastFist@programming.dev 48 points 2 days ago

What protest? There was no protest. That was clearly a popular demonstration of support for glorious leader. You lose 85,000 social credit!!

[–] Losdostres@lemmy.world 64 points 2 days ago (3 children)

Have always been curious what happened to those two dancing.

[–] CheeryLBottom@lemmy.world 43 points 2 days ago

Same. Every time I see it, I think about that

[–] Plastic_Ramses@lemmy.world 17 points 2 days ago

Ground up into paste and scraped off the ground.

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[–] Gammelfisch@lemmy.world 21 points 2 days ago (3 children)

I wonder if they survived the Tiananmen Square Massacre.

[–] IDKWhatUsernametoPutHereLolol@lemmy.dbzer0.com 22 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (3 children)

I mean, there were warning signs before June 4th. Those who left before probably survived. As for those who stayed, and if they managed to survive that day, they would probably be identified and arrested, but some managed to escape to then UK-controlled Hong Kong.

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Yellowbird

Yellowbird successfully helped more than 400 dissidents, who were smuggled through Hong Kong, and then onwards to Western countries. Notable escapees include Wu'erkaixi, Chai Ling, Li Lu, Feng Congde, Chen Yizi, and Su Xiaokang. Three Hong Kong–based activists were arrested by the Chinese authorities, but later released after the intervention of the Hong Kong government.

As for the rest: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests_and_massacre#Arrests,_punishments,_and_evacuations

The 21 most-wanted student leaders' faces and descriptions were often broadcast on television. Photographs with biographies of the leaders followed in this order: Wang Dan, Wuer Kaixi, Liu Gang, Chai Ling, Zhou Fengsuo, Zhai Weimin, Liang Qingdun, Wang Zhengyun, Zheng Xuguang, Ma Shaofang, Yang Tao, Wang Zhixing, Feng Congde, Wang Chaohua, Wang Youcai, Zhang Zhiqing, Zhang Boli, Li Lu, Zhang Ming, Xiong Wei, and Xiong Yan.

Each of the 21 students faced diverse experiences after their arrests or escapes; while some remain abroad with no intent to return, others have chosen to stay indefinitely, such as Zhang Ming. Only 7 of the 21 were able to escape. Some student leaders, such as Chai Ling and Wuer Kaixi, were able to escape to the United States, the United Kingdom, France, and other Western nations

The remaining student leaders were apprehended and incarcerated. Those who escaped, whether in 1989 or after, generally have had difficulty re-entering China up to this day. The Chinese government has preferred to leave the dissidents in exile. Those who attempt to re-enter, such as Wu'er Kaixi, have been simply sent back but not arrested.

Chen Ziming and Wang Juntao were arrested in late 1989 for their involvement in the protests. Chinese authorities alleged they were the "black hands" behind the movement. Both Chen and Wang rejected the allegations made against them. They were put on trial in 1990 and sentenced to 13 years in prison. Others, such as Zhang Zhiqing, have essentially disappeared. After his initial arrest in January 1991 and subsequent release, nothing further is known about his situation and where he lives now. Zhang Zhiqing's role and reason for being listed on the 21 most wanted is generally unknown; this is the case for many others on the list, such as Wang Chaohua.

According to the Dui Hua Foundation, citing a provincial government, 1,602 individuals were imprisoned for protest-related activities in early 1989. As of May 2012, at least two remain incarcerated in Beijing, and five others remain unaccounted for. In June 2014, it was reported that Miao Deshun was believed to be the last known prisoner incarcerated for their participation in the protests; he was last heard from a decade ago.

Also, some of the leadership got purged:

The party leadership expelled Zhao Ziyang from the Politburo Standing Committee (PSC). Hu Qili, another PSC member who opposed martial law but abstained from voting, was also removed from the committee.

As bad as it may sound, remember that, during Imperial China, they would all just lose their head, like the Emperor would literally order your head to be cut off. It could've been much worse.

[–] buddascrayon@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago

As bad as it may sound, remember that, during Imperial China, they would all just lose their head, like the Emperor would literally order your head to be cut off. It could've been much worse.

There's also the existence of eunuchs in ancient Chinese governments. Having your business chopped off in order to become a member of the leadership in your country takes a different set of values and priorities.

[–] blazeknave@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago

Jfc it's hard reading each of those children's names, thinking about them each having a family..

[–] asdfasdfasdf@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

But before CCP wasn't it ROC, not imperial China?

[–] IDKWhatUsernametoPutHereLolol@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (3 children)

~~My point isn't ROC vs PRC, its to highlight that, even when all you hear about China is all doom and gloom, the Imperial era of China is still far worse. Criticism (as in, without violent threats) against Xi Jingping could land you in prison for some time, depending on the severity, but criticizing the Qing Monarch (or any monarch in any dynasty of Imperial Era China) would be considered an insult, and gets you a summary execution by beheading, possibly along with your close relatives.~~

~~That's how much progress have been made. Sure, it isn't as free as actual democracies, but its still progress nonetheless. And its a reminder that the struggle against autocrats isn't futile.~~

Nvm, I retract my argument.

[–] asdfasdfasdf@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

It sounds like that's what I'm talking about. It was Imperial -> ROC -> PRC, not Imperial -> PRC.

The only progress was ROC. PRC was worse.

It's like saying "Oh you don't like Trump fucking up everything in our government so it's way more authoritarian? Well it's much better than when the US was imperial England, so it's still progress."

There's a step missing.

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