this post was submitted on 31 Mar 2025
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[CW: Climate existentialism] We are so cooked (hexbear.net)
submitted 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) by Dirt_Owl@hexbear.net to c/doomer@hexbear.net
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One of my classes for my Ecology Degree is an Environmental future planning class and it's bleak, folks. Here are some highlights of the ideas my professor has put forward for planning for the future:

Using AI to help predict all the natural disasters. Because AI is totally going to save us folks.

Floating Parks. Lol.

More bike lanes even though we live in a part of the country that is massively spread out, unbearably hot, humid and hilly. Sure mate, I'm going to bike my 2 hour by car commute on a bike in sauna conditions.

Ride share companies where you pay a subscription instead of owning a car because yeah sure private companies getting more money and the public owning less ourselves is totally the solution instead of JUST MAKING IT PUBLIC TRANSPORT FFS WE HAD TRAMS IN THE 1900s AND THEY WORKED FINE.

Asking right-wingers really nicely to take climate change seriously.

Yet another Paris agreement style thing asking countries to commit to a weak target that they'll just ignore anyway.

Really depressing shit like "Ok so climate change is inevitable so what are some ways we can adapt to constant natural disasters and food scarcity." Like not even planning to fix it or prevent it. Just accepting it as "well it's going to happen nothing we can do." when we sure as fuck should be doing whatever possible to avoid such a future (but of course we can't, because the only solution is communism and assertive resistance and liberals would rather kill the entire global ecosystem than actively fight for survival)

So basically if you want insight on how liberals are going to deal with climate change the answer is about as well as they did with COVID. So basically limp half solutions that they give up on in the spirit of comprising with reactionaries with a focus on mild damage control rather than prevention and repair.

The sad thing is that that the students themselves are putting forward actually good solutions that are communist without realising they're communist, but the lecturer just kind of smiles and nods and goes on to the next topic as if to say "Yes you're right but I can't say it because I work for capitalists."

The more I study the more apparent it becomes that there is no way a capitalist system can fight this. The west cannot fight this even though it's people know the solutions they simply can't do them due to the oppressive nature of our system. Thank god for China because it's looking bad otherwise.

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[–] fossilesque@lemmy.dbzer0.com 32 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

https://grassrootsjpe.org/series/i-also-accuse-the-liberal-university-of-terror-and-violence-what-are-we-going-to-do-about-this-violence/

There are many of us in the system, trying to call it out and do something. You have more allies than you know. I suggest parusing this journal's site. Happy to pass along more literature too, as your program isn't giving you what you need.

[–] Dirt_Owl@hexbear.net 22 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Thank you I really appreciate it

[–] fossilesque@lemmy.dbzer0.com 21 points 3 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Poke me in a few days. Scrambling on a deadline. I can dig the good stuff up after. There are whole schools of thought welling up right now, like spring shoots. There is a reason why the powers that be are fighting us so much right now. I really detest the way geoscience departments often lack broad theory courses with the STEM oriented programs.

Edit: Just thought of this...

Edit edit:

[–] BountifulEggnog@hexbear.net 25 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (2 children)

Ok so climate change is inevitable so what are some ways we can adapt to constant natural disasters and food scarcity.

A shit load of us will die. And uh, hopefully whoever is left is good at scavenging. I don't plan to be there though.

[–] vegeta1@hexbear.net 16 points 2 days ago

Or if nuclear warfare hits "the living will envy the dead" -Nikita Khruschev

[–] nothx@hexbear.net 2 points 2 days ago

Yeah, I don’t want to live through the collapse to be honest. For 1, im not emotionally or mentally built for it. 2, when im out of my meds i wont have very long anyway.

So I guess my first sentence should be revised to read: I won’t be able to live through the collapse.

However, I also don’t want to… I think there is a bit to much romanticism around this, not enough people see how brutal it’s gonna be.

[–] peppersky@hexbear.net 18 points 2 days ago (1 children)

"Ok so climate change is inevitable so what are some ways we can adapt to constant natural disasters and food scarcity." Like not even planning to fix it or prevent it. Just accepting it as "well it's going to happen nothing we can do.

Climate change, constant natural disasters and food scarcity are already happening right here, right now. There's no reason to fix or prevent that, unless you think inventing a time machine is an option. Even if we stopped all fossil fuel consumption right now at this moment, we'd still need to adapt to a fundamentally changed climate, more natural disasters and food scarcity.

[–] Dirt_Owl@hexbear.net 17 points 2 days ago (1 children)

It is fixable, and that narrative is just pushed to avoid taking the necessary steps to reversing the damage because it requires strict regulations of capitalist wastefulness and excess.

[–] peppersky@hexbear.net 10 points 2 days ago (1 children)

If you've somehow found a way to capture the millions of tons of CO2 in our atmosphere that we produced over the last two hundred years then you should share it with everybody, but unless that happens we are going to be hard-pressed to reverse the 2 degrees of global warming we are already at.

And like come on, we're communists here you could have at least come up with something more radical than "strict regulations of capitalism". Every aspect of human society in its largest form and it's smallest one would have to be completely rediscovered and redirected towards the goal of being sustainable if we want to have any chance at surviving. We need a more radical break with the state of things than ever before.

[–] Dirt_Owl@hexbear.net 12 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

We literally reversed the hole in the ozone layer by banning CFCs. You underestimate how much of this is just due to overproduction and for profit exploitation of the environment. Once you take the unrelenting demand of infinite growth and production out of the equation you can actually get shit done.

If resources were carefully managed and carbon recapturing in the form of mass restoring of natural vegetation was undertaken you could easily coax the Earth back into stability.

The problem is capitalists do the exact opposite right now and the Earth can't keep up. They have increased land clearing, They have increased unnecessary meat overconsumption and it's all just for investor portfolios. There are multiple studies that have shown that as soon as we get our boot off of the environment even just a bit, it bounces back and starts to repair, the average person doesn't even have to give up anything. But it never lasts long because a capitalist economy is run by people that want number to go up and lobby to be able to carve into the environment as much as they want.

[–] FedPosterman5000@hexbear.net 15 points 2 days ago

Just mediating here - you’re both getting at the same point - albeit from different levels of optimism - so I don’t want either of you catching strays.

Unfortunately, peppersky is correct, we’ve absolutely blown past the understood “point of no return“, and not just in a minor way like “ahhhh we eased off but didn’t quite make it to the 2c goal” but in a major way that we’re continuing to accelerate to this day - but if we stopped science at the “understood” we’d never get anywhere. So in order to survive the present moment and make it to the next we need: science, policy, and the abolition of capitalism by any means necessary. Science to inform ways to capture carbon, desalinate drinking water, adapt food systems, etc to try and halt the exacerbation of ecological destruction/protect communities. We need policy (very broadly speaking) to protect vulnerable groups- otherwise the crises of the coming years will be used to exploit them and extract wealth in unprecedented ways. Lastly, to ensure any long-term stability in the science and policy, capitalism needs to end, overconsumption needs to end, sacrificing the many for the comfort of the few needs to end - it has thrown off the natural balance of the biosystem and will be the death of us all.

At present- it’s a matter of resource allocation. Do we spend time and money in science? Policy? Overthrowing capitalism? Movements have been co-opted, capitalist government efforts are dismantled by capitalists, policy-makers and scientists have relented to funders or been silenced through other means. So at this point, I’m hammering on option number 3 as a means to support number 2, and understand both are needed to have success with 1. Science under capitalism is not going to achieve the conditions necessary for its survival, but its high priests will continue sacrifice us and our futures in the hopes that it will. Frankly there need to be actionable steps that can be taken by the international proletariat independent of their governments - at a personal level (so it can not be co-opted) but an organized, global scale (so it can not be quashed).

There are lot more people who suffer from the biosystems demise than there are who profit from it. And while those who profit will sacrifice us time and again - if we stand together …. Idk I won’t say we’ll succeed necessarily but we’ll do whatever we can for each other (regardless of setting) - and that’s life

[–] FlakesBongler@hexbear.net 25 points 3 days ago

Need to build that big mirror from Futurama and then use it to laser the bourgeoisie like a bunch of ants

[–] VILenin@hexbear.net 20 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

At that point just become one of those delusional cult people in all the disaster movies that pray to Cthulhu for humanity’s salvation or some shit, same type of magical thinking, but more fun

Actually, I shouldn’t be so harsh. You’re still a little lucky that your ecology department hasn’t been completely gutted to fund the multimillion dollar salaries of sportsball coaches.

[–] yet_another_commie@lemmygrad.ml 23 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Climate solution (Lemmygrad edition):

  1. Make China rich by TODAY

  2. Now make Global South richer by TOMORROW

  3. Now sanction the West to hell by A FEW YEARS

  4. Go negative net emissions & vegan+cultured meat YESTERDAY

[–] FedPosterman5000@hexbear.net 12 points 2 days ago

Okay so I’m going to be all over the place in this comment, but try to organize things and provide useful links. But my major takeaways are:

  • focus on trauma-informed communication and empathetic science communication,
  • learn the stages of grief and how they apply to climate conversations
  • build communities and support networks,
  • reform/abolish systems of power such that marginalized groups have an equal seat
  • overthrow capitalism by any means necessary

I’m learning more and more (I’m still young) that quality of science has not been the issue, but rather communication linked to painting rosy pictures (with the intent to not cause panic) instead of facing harsh realities and discussing how to approach them. Trauma-informed communication and general, empathetic communication of science rooted in community-building and “meeting people where there at” is our strongest tool at the present.

We’re well past the time for discussions of whether climate change is real, and as a rule I automatically treat any discussion on the matter as in bad faith and don’t waste my time - people who have experienced climate trauma will not argue this - only soft fucks who have never left their culdesac. Unfortunately, this is an expected stage of grief, and your ultimate goal is to get everyone through those stages and on to doing something about it.

Generally- things aren’t looking good in terms of habitability of coastal areas, shifts of arable land (and the food production industry’s inability to adapt accordingly), water scarcity, loss of biodiversity, disruption of feedback loops regarding ocean acidification/loss of buffer capacity/wind patterns/food webs - and frankly are getting worse faster than I was ever taught they would. It’s running headlong into the “socialism or barbarism” decision and the “most developed” nations are following the US in lockstep with hammering that motherfuckin barbarism button.

This is of course inextricably driven by the capitalist systems need to maintain a status quo, until capitalists are well-positioned to make the jump to take advantage of the next status shift. (E.g. bill gates and Microsoft have been positioning physically and politically in North Dakota, and i would say they’ve successfully done so.) Essentially, capitalism cannot survive if we intend to. Concepts of nationality must also be left behind in favor of open borders so that systems of productivity and distribution of food, water, and commodities are able to adapt based on shifting global population centers.

With sea level rise we will of course see major disruptions to sea ports and their connections to rail, population shifts away from the coasts, and general failure of infrastructure that’s not meant to be submerged. Inland we can expect changes in precipitation patterns leading ultimately to movement of communities away from floodplains- where many established for production/transportation.

I think we will be more limited in areas we live within leading to lots of necessary migration- and it’s of the utmost importance then to be sure that groups in precarious positions are not taken advantage of.

I don’t know where things are going in 70 years (presumably the longest I’ll live) - but my most optimistic viewpoint is bleak, especially if systems cling to the status quo. In that case I will cling to my family and comrades and save all we can.

https://web.archive.org/web/20240116222020/https://www.landscapepartnership.org/maps-data/climate-context/cc-resources/ClimateSciPDFs/Five%20Stages%20of%20Climate%20Grief.pdf/index_html

https://www.ctipp.org/post/integrating-near-science-into-trauma-informed-efforts

https://www.climate.gov/news-features/understanding-climate/climate-change-global-sea-level

https://press.un.org/en/2019/gaef3519.doc.htm

[–] sharkfucker420@lemmy.ml 18 points 3 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Fully prepared to hear the giant ice cube solution on national news soon

[–] came_apart_at_Kmart@hexbear.net 7 points 2 days ago

studying ecology and modern issues at the intersection of society/nature was a big shove into Marxism for me too.

lots of classes describing and articulating with terrifying accuracy about how fucked we were, how resilient natural systems could be if we stopped actively and increasingly choking them to death, etc. and witnessing the complete lack of realistic solutions within the dominant ideological frame of privatization, individualism etc.

I was in an interdisciplinary program which had a cluster in actual social sciences (beyond the dismal science of economics in the US) so I had just enough understanding and connections to that "other" side of campus and found myself making friends with students over there and learning about their weird conferences.

after attending one and realizing how 1) everyone was talking about real life problems and case studies the hard-science-only ecologists ignore or are uncomfortable talking about 2) everyone was using all this shorthand jargon I didn't know and I realized it was "marx" who I had heard of, of course, but never actually read. I was in favor of socialism already, as socialist programs made sense, universal rights, common interests, etc. I just wanted to keep up with the dialogue and conversations these people were having about theories of land, ownership, workers, power, so I found David Harvey's lecture series online and that changed everything. it was a real struggle, but once things started to click, it was like a train picking up momentum. like the thread one pulls on that keeps going until an entire fascade and constructed understanding unravels completely. the magic dispels in an instant, and all we are left with is the horror of what is and the beauty of what might be.

now my love for the land and its peoples is as pure as my hate for capitalism, colonialism, and empire.

[–] blobjim@hexbear.net 7 points 3 days ago (2 children)

at least ridesharing reduces consumption

[–] Dirt_Owl@hexbear.net 16 points 3 days ago

True but the problem is tying it to a subscription service like Uber means that it will be too expensive for most people to rely on. You can't do it with a privately owned company with a profit motive. It has to be public transport for it to work.

[–] D61@hexbear.net 4 points 2 days ago (1 children)

doubt

If one car drives 200 miles in a day, I'd imagine that its making a similiar amount of pollution as 4 cars driving 50 miles in a day, at least as far as fuel consumption and GHG emissions go. How much of an Uber driver's day just them driving around in a vehicle all by themselves? At least public transit has the potential to be designed to keep the bus/train transporting passengers between every stop.

Public transit should be the backbone with carpooling and cabs being the much smaller band-aid for people in edge cases that can't easily be served by public transit.

[–] blobjim@hexbear.net 2 points 2 days ago

I'm talking about the manufacturing of the car itself.

[–] SuperNovaCouchGuy2@hexbear.net 3 points 2 days ago

if they cant bring themselves to stop funding pissrael's genocide in Palestine in the present then these evil bastards won't lift a finger to save millions of lives by mitigating the worst of the upcoming climate apocalypse

they must be removed from the control panel and replaced by a working class revolutionary party

[–] MohammedTheCommunistPalestinian@hexbear.net 3 points 2 days ago

🤣