this post was submitted on 09 May 2025
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The Catholic Church has issued a warning to its clergy in Washington state: Any priest who complies with a new law requiring the reporting of child abuse confessions to authorities will be excommunicated.

https://www.newsweek.com/catholic-church-excommunicate-priests-following-new-us-state-law-2069039

(page 2) 50 comments
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[–] TheRealKuni@midwest.social 22 points 9 hours ago (19 children)

Separation of church and state goes both ways.

Confession is a religious rite. Try to legislate that rite is a violation of that separation.

Priests are bound by their office to maintain absolute confidentiality of confessed sins. Otherwise people are not likely to confess their sins.

It doesn’t matter how you, personally, feel about this or their religion or the value of confession as a sacrament, that’s their religion. The state doesn’t get to intervene.

The church should stay out of state affairs, and the state should stay out of church affairs. Exceptions exist, like when practices are outright criminal in themselves. But the state cannot compel a priest to violate their office. This is long accepted. You cannot compel a priest to testify about confession, for example.

Priests can encourage people to go to the police, but that’s it. Their role in confession is between the sinner and their god.

[–] PapaStevesy@lemmy.world 6 points 7 hours ago (3 children)

Exceptions exist, like when practices are outright criminal in themselves

Aiding and abetting criminals is a crime.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 3 points 7 hours ago (9 children)

How does receiving a confession aid or abet the perpetrator?

[–] kevin2107@lemmy.world 3 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

If a child says my dad touches me at night and you do nothing you belong in jail

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[–] Woht24@lemmy.world 1 points 7 hours ago (2 children)

It doesn't, there's just stupid people out there who find X so abhorrent that can't possibly have a rational thought regarding it.

But you've been on Lemmy before, so I'm sure you know all about it.

[–] humorlessrepost@lemmy.world 3 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago)

Typical lemmy, finding X abhorrent*.

^*for child-rape values of X^

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[–] Jankatarch@lemmy.world 4 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago)

You know what that's fair. This is the "just" thing to do.
I still do hope priests will try to fix it in their own communities tho.

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[–] aaron@infosec.pub 7 points 8 hours ago

The Catholic church is hardly going to allow priests to be forced to go to the police and admit crimes.

[–] theotherbelow@lemmynsfw.com 11 points 10 hours ago (2 children)

Excommunicated vs Imprisoned. The choice is yours.

[–] LifeInMultipleChoice@lemmy.world 5 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago) (1 children)

Imprisoned for what? I can't see how any jury could ever convict someone "beyond a reasonable doubt" or what not on someone saying something. Most prosecutors would likely say you'd need more evidence to even start building a case. Now if the person went to the police and reported being sexually assaulted and then the priest came forward it might go somewhere, but even then it may not go anywhere if there wasn't evidence. They have to prove someone performed an illegal act, which someone's word counts for shit. We could get 1,000,000 people to say pdiddy raped Selina Gomez, but without any other evidence, it shouldn't go anywhere with the way our justice system is set up.

Public Defender: "were you there?" Priest: "No"

[–] theotherbelow@lemmynsfw.com 2 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago)

It is illegal to be complicit in child sex abuse.

"Oh but the rapist must be comfortable in knowing their confession is scared knowledge"

Rights never are allowed to harm others so gravely. Will this law flush it all out? Doubt it, but the duty to protect children has nothing to do with religion.

I find it hard to believe this is controversial.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 1 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

It's not yours, though. It is the choice of the state/federal prosecutors. And that's where this gets hairy.

Because the modern political order is dripping with pedophiles and rapists and accomplices to the same. They go about openly admitting to their crimes, while silencing their critics and avoiding any kind of punishment. Meanwhile, they unleash the fully-unchecked power of the police, in defiance of court order and legislative statute, to arrest and remove suspects without trial or even serious investigation.

A legal system operating in this capacity - one in which a donation to Trump's bitcoin fund matters more than the contents of a case file or a jury's verdict - cannot deliver anything resembling justice.

[–] theotherbelow@lemmynsfw.com 0 points 5 hours ago

Found the bot.

[–] Modern_medicine_isnt@lemmy.world 23 points 11 hours ago (2 children)

A curious question. Why isn't everyone a mandatory reporter for child abuse? And assuming there is a good reason why, then why are doctors and such specifically seperated out. And do priests fit that same criteria?

[–] TWeaK@lemm.ee 18 points 10 hours ago

You've touched on a key point, I think. Doctors and other professionals have mandatory reporting because a) they are in positions of respect and trust within the community, and b) they are professionals, as defined in law, and have standards to uphold.

Priests definitely meet the definition of a), however b) is a bit of a sticking point: their role isn't defined by law, but by the church. Furthermore, a court can order you to go to therapy sessions, but they can't order you to go to confession - it's completely voluntary. A therapist could tease out previous abuse, but a priest will only hear what the confessor wants to tell them about.

I'm in line with you in thinking that everyone should report abuse, but I think that a priest has more in common with an average person in this regard compared to a person working in a legally protected profession. There would be legal consequences for impersonating a therapist, but not for impersonating a priest.

[–] InverseParallax@lemmy.world 9 points 9 hours ago* (last edited 9 hours ago)

It has to do with professional training and responsibility (duty of care), coupled with kids trusting them more and they are considered to have some para-custodial responsibility for children.

Priests aren't entirely in that category, but they probably should be, the question is the relationship of the priests, ie a random priest who heard a rumor is very different from one who heard confession or tends the victim or abuser directly.

Also, you don't want to empower random-ass people too much, people are absolute fucking morons and media will incite them to do something more moronic:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/vigilante-mob-attacks-home-of-paediatrician-710864.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pizzagate_conspiracy_theory

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_libel

Inbred rednecks just danger incarnate, empowering them in any way is insane and will guarantee needess innocent victims.

[–] finitebanjo@lemmy.world 7 points 9 hours ago* (last edited 9 hours ago) (4 children)

Mixed feelings

Obviously the clergy have absolute values which they believe come from god, so obviously they're not equipped to make exceptions such as this as individuals. You would have to appeal the to pope and cardinals directly to change the rules.

How does the state intend to enforce this? Is there a priest registry in washington state, and does it account for all recognized religions for tax purposes? Are they going to take away peoples license to preach?

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[–] LePoisson@lemmy.world 5 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

Bro it's breaking Catholic canon. They can change that shit that's what the Pope is for.

Maybe God would be chill with revealing child abuse even if it comes from confession. Just carve a little exception out there. Crazy that the clergy would rather protect pedophiles than reinterpreting some doctrine.

[–] Bilaketari@reddthat.com -1 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

First off, adapting religion to secular laws is not how that works. There's the separation of church an state and the state should have no say in any religion. The country was based on religious freedom and escaping what the English kings were trying to do to Christianity in their realms (controlling religion).

But second you shouldn't take that way since you don't seem to grasp the role reconciliation has for Catholics and Orthodox (and others). It's a sacrament (or sacred mystery for Orthodox). That's dogma and the practice/form is in large part a matter of unchangeable doctrine. That kind of doctrine never gets changed, ever, and never has. It's an essential part of Catholics' beliefs. Parts of format are just regular teaching which can get changed, but that's not a matter of interpretation, it's a matter of practice (in this case canon law) guided by the foundatinal dogma and unchanging doctrine. The seal of confessing is so fundamental, so sacred that there have been numerous martyrs whose status comes from having been willing to die rather than break it. It's would be less grave to lie about believing in Christ to save your life than to break the seal (and most martyrs died for refusing to reject their faith when Christianity was prohibited).

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[–] Modern_medicine_isnt@lemmy.world 5 points 11 hours ago (2 children)

So it was unclear to me from the article if it simply made priests mandatory reporters or if it went further. My understanding is that mandatory reporters don't have to report past occurrences specifically. They only havecto report if it is currently happening or they suspect going to happen. If that is the case, it should be fine. Confession isn't about what you are going to do.

[–] TWeaK@lemm.ee 11 points 10 hours ago

Priests are being made into mandatory reporters in Washington state. In Washington state, the mandatory reporting law appears to require reporting of all past events of abuse - it does not make reference to recent acts or imminent risk.

Sec. 2. (1) (a) When [any member of these groups] has reasonable cause to believe that a child has suffered abuse or neglect, he or she shall report such incident, or cause a report to be made, to the proper law enforcement agency or to the department

https://app.leg.wa.gov/billsummary/?BillNumber=5375&Year=2025

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