this post was submitted on 29 Jun 2025
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Like I get the historical thing with the heir to Muhammad, but what is there actual doctrinal disagreement?

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[–] woodenghost@hexbear.net 13 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Both have multiple schools, so that is a very broad question. I think the most interesting direction to take it is to look at philosophical differences. But even that is much too broad to answer. Also these philosophies are seldom if ever representative of theological orthodoxy.

Historically and very broadly speaking, Sunni philosophy could be said to be more Aristotelian or peripatetic (Ibn Sina, Falsafa) and Shia philosophy more platonist or neoplatonist (Ismaili Shia). But that's a huge oversimplification, since there is a huge overlap, especially with Aristotle, since Ibn Sina is sometimes claimed by both. Both are connected to different mystical Sufi traditions. Shia has Illuminationism and transcendent theosophy (existence over essence, Twelver Shia, Mulla Sadra). Sunni also had Averroism (Ibn Rushd). Ibn Rushd and Ibn Sina (Avicenna) together strongly influenced almost all medieval European Christian thought and scholasticism.

If you want a good overview, you can listen to the 75 episodes of Peter Adamsons podcast "History of philosophy without any gaps" on philosophy in the Islamic world.

[–] RedWizard@hexbear.net 23 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Do they have a real material disagreement? I actually don't know. What I do know is that prior to the invasion of Iraq, the people of Iraq didn't think about who was what. It wasn't something anyone thought about. When the Americans showed up they began separating and segregating them, using their sects as a wedge and created the sectarian conflict out of thin air.

[–] duderium@hexbear.net 8 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I think this is the best answer. Shia and Sunni also celebrate (sometimes different) holidays on slightly different dates, and the Shia version of the Shahada includes (an apparently optional?) reference to Ali.

I want to say that the Iranian revolution is also important here, but I'm really not sure, because revolutionary Iran has worked with the USA in the past (in the Iraq War, for instance). The process of the West turning against the Shia has probably been gradual. Saddam was also Sunni and is apparently thought of as a hero in the Sunni world. There are so many people who belong to each of these sects, but my general impression in talking with them is that Sunnis are more westernized (less likely to wear the hijab, see Fanon's fascinating take on the versatility of the hijab in the Algerian struggle) while Shias are more hostile to western influences, but there are many exceptions. Hamas is currently the only major Sunni organization I can think of that is fighting genocide, while Hezbollah, Ansarallah, and the Iranian government are Shia. I follow a Sunni news group on telegram that will sometimes post the strangest shit about Syria (they claim that Iran and Hezbollah have committed atrocities there and are convinced that Jolani is actually independent from western influences). They will also say that Hamas is better at fighting than Hezbollah, basically because Hamas films a lot of their combat while Hezbollah is more shy to do so.

The vast majority of the world's Muslims are Sunni, but the two groups seem to contend with each other a lot in the Middle East only (plenty of Shia also live in India and Pakistan). Although there are huge numbers of Muslims in places like Indonesia, India, and Africa, it sometimes feels like only a few countries really exist in the Muslim world—Iran, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Syria, Palestine, the UAE. Algeria for instance is remarkably low-key even though it's right next to all the action, it has fifty million people, a growing economy, an anti-imperialist stance, many connections with Russia and China, and a huge military (its concern largely seems to be with French influence over Algerian gas exports and the endless conflict with Morocco / France over Western Sahara). Before the Iranian revolution, the ideological battle in the Middle East was between Nasser's secularism and the religious fervor of Saudi Arabia; now the battle is between Sunni and Shia thanks to the rupture of the Iraq War.

I think Hegel's notion that everything is a lot more closely connected than we might realize is instructive here.

[–] sharkfucker420@lemmy.ml 14 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I am probably gonna butcher this a lil but I am gonna give it my best shot. From what I understand one of the main disagreements is how you connect with god. From the sunni perspective you can communicate directly through prayer. God will hear you personally. The Shia often communicate through a mediator who kinda fast tracks their prayer to god. I think these mediaters are usually Imams, even dead ones but I am stretching my knowledge a bit here.

The way I had it described to me kinda reminded me of protestants and catholics with how catholics speak to god through a priest. Would love to know how correct I am here because its been a while since I studied this.

Edit: oh yeah there is also some saint veneration of Imams that sunnis consider idolatry

[–] context@hexbear.net 14 points 2 days ago (1 children)

the let's talk religion youtube channel is excellent, and he's got a nice 15 minute video addressing your question:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQARp3gyyG0

[–] HexReplyBot@hexbear.net 3 points 2 days ago

I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:

[–] Euergetes@hexbear.net 7 points 1 day ago

sunni-shia are too broad of categories to be useful in this respect.