Privacy

Love this whole thread.

I would politely suggest a weekly thread like this one. Talking to {no common sense about tech} about {tech thing} in a way where they come to understand the problem, plainly and accurately.

How many places are there where you can see that in a way that real actual humans can understand, without getting yelled at by the poster? Not enough, that's how many.

Ask about retention and privacy policies: who can access them, and how can we confirm that? How often will that access policy be reviewed? Which primary and secondary person is responsible for confirming access and access lists? The risk of lawsuits could require insurance;nor will the contingency fund be paying for lawsuits brought by privacy violations that could arrive a decade after a violation? Where are the recordings stored, and for how long? Which member and secondary is responsible for reporting the status and size of held recordings, confirm they're being rotated and deleted, and confirm their storage medium is secure and private? Will passwords be rotated, and who is responsible for doing that, and who else is responsible for checking it's been changed in the atrata meetings? Is this an outsourcing thing, and which committee picks the company managing your backed up recordings, and is this the same group which will report on security compliance (advertised and tested randomly) where your likenesses will be stored?

Need more? Storing someone's likeness for any length of time requires a LOT of boxes checked, repeatedly, and this is often too much for most organizations, especially if they need to outsource the tech work. Asking periodically to have tapes remove your likeness and confirm it's removed will swamp an FTE, but suggest everyone do this to confirm their movements and ensure accuracy.

Recommend ALL this not be taken from contingency fund.

Does the HOA restrict individual residents from putting them on their own property?

If they're in shared common areas it affects all residents indiscriminately so it makes sense, to me at least, that unanimous agreement should be needed.

However, why not propose an alternative whereby this particular resident can add them to their property.

It took me 4 years but this is why I got our HOA disbanded.

I'd reinforce point one with consideration of cost/benefits. Purchase, install, maintenance, replacement, and compliance with legal requirements are all going to have a cost. Most people don't feel like they're getting their money's worth out of having an HOA in the first place, much less want to pay more for essentially no benefit. Since the primary benefit of security cameras (if not being professionally monitored) is deterrence, maybe you could get the benefit without the invasion or cost with some dummy cams. <10% of the cost for 99% of the benefit.

Cheap cameras often have bad side effects.

Amazon cameras stream everything to Amazon. There was a story where a delivery guy heard the camera wrong and reported it to Amazon, then Amazon disabled their Amazon account and it disabled their entire smart home. Amazon also gives all the footage to police, even when nothing wrong has happened.

Arlo cameras were sold as “local” but still uploaded to their cloud, and everyone has access by guessing the URL, there was no password or anything.

Lots of these cheaper cameras have so many flaws.

I have 2 camera systems. Offline local system that just records if anything happens, no internet at all.

I have another system that I have cameras in specific places (like the driveway) and I can get notifications of any movement.

It’s really, really hard to find a good one, thats also secure. Also does it have to be online?

Say nothing and break the cameras. Keep doing it until they decide it's too expensive.

Maybe start asking for details about who will have access to them, will they be monitored, how long will footage be kept, etc. I bet most folks have a neighbor that they don't want having access.

These "user-friendly" network cameras are frequently bought and set up by people who have no idea what they're doing, which leads to thousands of them being accessible to anyone on the Internet:

Bitsight Identifies Thousands of Security Cameras Openly Accessible on the Internet

Wyze cameras let some owners see into a stranger’s home — again

Security startup Verkada hack exposes 150,000 security cameras in Tesla factories, jails, and more

Somebody’s Watching: Hackers Breach Ring Home Security Cameras

Even the companies that make and distribute these cameras don't secure them properly.

In some of these cases getting access to the camera barely even qualifies as hacking. If you know the web address of the camera you can just type it into your web browser and get the live video feed because it's just being streamed to the public Internet, no authentication or encryption. That means someone on the other side of the planet or someone in the house next door can just start watching what's going on in your house.

If the HOA insists on installing cameras, you should insist that they hire a professional to install and configure them correctly and maintain them long-term to prevent security breaches. Someone has to keep the firmware/software up to date when the manufacturer releases security patches and bug fixes, not just for the cameras but also for the network they're connected to. This means you don't just need to pay for one-time installation, you need to hire an employee long-term.

I would also ask the pushy neighbor if he was specifically planning on buying Wyze cameras for this. They've had multiple security problems in recent years.

A halfway intelligent thief could just use the camera to see where things worth stealing are kept and what time of day is best for breaking in unnoticed. If this is not done properly it will make the security worse, not better.

Cameras allow the HOA to monitor residents, whether or not they're technically allowed to

recent thefts after someone left a garage door open

why not put a camera in the garage then?

Money is better spent on (name anything around the premises that needs repair or upgrade)

I'm willing to bet that over the years, most of the theft and damage in the building has been to cars in the garage. Cameras placed there would also have caught the culprit as they entered. Rather than place them everywhere, maybe at least restrict them to the garage.

Go talk to your local police department. They'll likely have some suggestions on how to place to the cameras to be most useful in an investigation.
You may also be surprised to find out they'll just ignore the video evidence unless the thief holds up their driver's license and 6 other forms of valid ID in front of the camera. In other words, you might find out there will be no investigation regardless of how much video footage you present.

Maybe simply point out that people should remember to secure their belongings. Close and lock your garage door

How is the neighbor advocating for them? Like, are they making a rational case, or is it just vibes? I'm curious what problems they think they're solving and how these cameras would solve them.

sounds like the states

Sounds good to me. Not sure what will convince HOA.