this post was submitted on 01 Dec 2023
163 points (95.5% liked)

Fuck Cars

9675 readers
33 users here now

This community exists as a sister community/copycat community to the r/fuckcars subreddit.

This community exists for the following reasons:

You can find the Matrix chat room for this community here.

Rules

  1. Be nice to each other. Being aggressive or inflammatory towards other users will get you banned. Name calling or obvious trolling falls under that. Hate cars, hate the system, but not people. While some drivers definitely deserve some hate, most of them didn't choose car-centric life out of free will.

  2. No bigotry or hate. Racism, transphobia, misogyny, ableism, homophobia, chauvinism, fat-shaming, body-shaming, stigmatization of people experiencing homeless or substance users, etc. are not tolerated. Don't use slurs. You can laugh at someone's fragile masculinity without associating it with their body. The correlation between car-culture and body weight is not an excuse for fat-shaming.

  3. Stay on-topic. Submissions should be on-topic to the externalities of car culture in urban development and communities globally. Posting about alternatives to cars and car culture is fine. Don't post literal car fucking.

  4. No traffic violence. Do not post depictions of traffic violence. NSFW or NSFL posts are not allowed. Gawking at crashes is not allowed. Be respectful to people who are a victim of traffic violence or otherwise traumatized by it. News articles about crashes and statistics about traffic violence are allowed. Glorifying traffic violence will get you banned.

  5. No reposts. Before sharing, check if your post isn't a repost. Reposts that add something new are fine. Reposts that are sharing content from somewhere else are fine too.

  6. No misinformation. Masks and vaccines save lives during a pandemic, climate change is real and anthropogenic - and denial of these and other established facts will get you banned. False or highly speculative titles will get your post deleted.

  7. No harassment. Posts that (may) cause harassment, dogpiling or brigading, intentionally or not, will be removed. Please do not post screenshots containing uncensored usernames. Actual harassment, dogpiling or brigading is a bannable offence.

Please report posts and comments that violate our rules.

founded 3 years ago
MODERATORS
uthredii@lemmy.ml
uthredii@beehaw.org
163
Europe’s politicians are dEsPeRaTe to tackle e-scooters, why aren’t they bothered by monster SUVs? (www.transportenvironment.org)
submitted 9 months ago by mondoman712@lemmy.ml to c/fuck_cars@lemmy.ml
29 comments fedilink hide all child comments
top 29 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] qyron@sopuli.xyz 29 points 9 months ago (2 children)

In Portugal, e-scooters had to be severely regulated as many gruesome and bloody accidents happened because their users entered high speed ways, heavily modified the scooters to achieve over 80km/h speeds, were left abandoned by users of rental services everywhere, invaded sidewalks and endangered pedestrians or public transports lanes.

The ever growing size of cars is a worthy cause of worry: I drive a Ford Ranger for professional reasons and the vehicle is ridiculously cumbersome, wide and clumsy for the roads I have to use. Lawmakers need to cull the auto makers arms race on bulky vehicles.

But lets not overlook that e-scooters are a very big source of traffic accidents by themselves and let this micromobility solution run amok.

[–] mondoman712@lemmy.ml 14 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Are escooters a "very big source of traffic accidents"? I'm sure there have been crashes and there should be regulations, but are these crashes just much more publicised than car crashes and that's why you think there's been a lot?

[–] qyron@sopuli.xyz 11 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I have a national entity that collects and processes such data and elaborates the statistics.

Just out of sheer number, car accidents have to be more numerous: more cars, more accidents.

But car related accidents do not have to be fatal by default, or bring severe bodily damage to passengers and bystanders.

escooters have no protection neither for the user nor bystanders, with the added risk factor that a gross number of the users of these scooters invade, willingly, walkways and other reserved lanes, with often serious consequences.

escooters brought an entire new pletora of problems

[–] ProgrammingSocks@pawb.social 13 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

No, I would argue that e-scooters simply exposed the existing problems in our infrastructure today. As I said in another comment I prefer ebikes to e-scooters by A LOT but people should not be forced to ride 80 fucking km/h SCOOTERS just to get where they are going. It doesn't happen when there is accessible and affordable transit.

And in cities, pedestrians and bikes (sure scooters too) need to be separated as well. Cities have haphazardly thrown e scooter rentals out there, not thinking about the fact that there is absolutely no infrastructure to support it, and so people are claiming it's the scooters fault for the city failing to build anything that actually supports these services, and more broadly, failing to build anything that supports alternative modes of transport.

[–] Facebones@reddthat.com 7 points 9 months ago

Sometimes, Even when drivers leave the road, scooters/bikers/pedestrians somehow get blamed for being too close to a road. It just comes down to what it's always come down to:

Buy a fucking car or get blamed for everything cause you didn't buy a car.

[–] qyron@sopuli.xyz 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Let's part the waters.

These are considered for all purposes motor vehicles and can use as such any road, except for highways. These even have an incentive for adoption, being exempt of some taxes.

Riding these in a city and getting into an accident follows the same rules; a car hitting one is pretty much screwed, as these vehicles do not have the same defensive capabilities as a car. The average car drivers respects and gives room to these vehicles.

The only blatant flaw for better acommodating these vehicles is the lack of reserved parking spaces, which forces many drivers to occupy sidewalks just like what happens with conventional scooters, and most people understands and tolerates.

By comparison, these have quickly become the bane of safe travelling for all because whoever uses these tends to think is better or smarter than anyone else.

These were originally considered equivalent to a bicycle and as such could use those lanes as well as common roads, observing the same traffic regulations (keep to the right, no more than two bicycles side by side, wear helmet, etc). And bycicle accidents are not rampant.

Unlike those contraptions that are constantly seen invading sidewalks and other pedestrian reserved areas and endangering people and animals. There have been several sightings of these machines doing 110km/h in highways; those people are reckless and stupid. Rentals are often abandoned anywhere and everywhere. Users of these often swerve in front or between traffic, invade BUS lanes and endanger themselves and others.

Accomodate these any more? How about some basic civility?

[–] ProgrammingSocks@pawb.social 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

If you're sitting its a motorbike. If you're pedaling and it's under a certain wattage it's an ebikes. If you're standing and throttling it's an e-scooter. I'm not talking about electric mopeds/moyorcycles. E scooters are only acceptable when they're limited to ~25km/h IMO, but ebikes are still preferable. I'm not saying people should be going 100km/h on a scooter, you're misconstruing it. I'm arguing that the fact that those people are resorting to using 100km/h death machines signals a problem in infrastructure and alternate modes of transport.

[–] qyron@sopuli.xyz 1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

These machines being tinkered with and heavily modified happens almost exclusevely in urban areas where good public transportation already exists.

Every article I've read usually boils down to thrills, a hollow sense of being against the system or just disrespect for the place because tourist.

Even giving all the wiggle room for bad reporting, it feels something is very wrong with this particular mode of transportation, in that setting.

I live in a rural area, with essentially no public transportation, and these alternatives have been growing in popularity with no issues. Even the older folks get intrigued and often strike up conversations with the people using it.

[–] grue@lemmy.world 4 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I drive a Ford Ranger for professional reasons and the vehicle is ridiculously cumbersome, wide and clumsy

The Ranger used to be decently small, for a truck. Not truly tiny like a VW Rabbit Pickup or whatever, but decent.

[–] qyron@sopuli.xyz 2 points 9 months ago

It's the first time I drive one. In my private life I drive either hatchbacks or station wagons (because dogs) which handle and are built very differently.

[–] MeowyNinhaj@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 9 months ago (2 children)

One has tax revenue

[–] mondoman712@lemmy.ml 20 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Except cars cost the tax payer a lot more than they raise, and larger vehicles cost even more.

[–] Diplomjodler@feddit.de 8 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

But e-scooter companies don't pay as many bribes and don't have as many lobbyists.

[–] ProgrammingSocks@pawb.social 12 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Cars are a tax burden. Car infrastructure generates debt, not revenue.

[–] uis@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago

Not for "right people"

[–] fluxion@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

e-scooters killed all my friends

[–] grue@lemmy.world 9 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I myself was killed by an e-scooter! Twice!

[–] PlantDadManGuy@lemmy.world 5 points 9 months ago (2 children)

An E scooter turned me into a newt!

[–] grue@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago

🤨 A newt?

[–] uis@lemmy.world 1 points 9 months ago

Anewd?

[–] Dirk@lemmy.ml 1 points 9 months ago

Because the politicians are deep up in the automobile lobby's ass.