this post was submitted on 04 Dec 2023
331 points (95.1% liked)

Comic Strips

12543 readers
4173 users here now

Comic Strips is a community for those who love comic stories.

The rules are simple:

Web of links

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
331
The Clock (feddit.de)
submitted 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) by noerdman@feddit.de to c/comicstrips@lemmy.world
 

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] cerement@slrpnk.net 119 points 11 months ago (5 children)

one of the better ideas I’ve heard recently is that commute time should be included in clocked hours

[–] 13esq@lemmy.world 39 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (6 children)

It seems silly to incentivise long commutes.

Why pay someone that drives an hour each way more than someone that cycles to work in twenty minutes?

In that example, based on a wage of £20ph, the driver would be earning £6,666 per year more than the cyclist, that's nearly an additional £300,000 over a 45 year career.. You'd be an absolute idiot to not sell your house and move as far away from your work as reasonably possible.

[–] ilinamorato@lemmy.world 39 points 11 months ago (2 children)

People always bring up this objection, but it's extremely solvable: just pay employees for their travel respective to the median commute time for that area. Sure, people who live close get a little bonus and people who live far away get slightly less; but it removes all impetus to game the system and helps people who need it.

[–] Opafi@feddit.de 12 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Germany kind of does that... When you file your taxes, you claim the "Pendlerpauschale", which is, roughly translated, the commute lump sum. For the first 20 kilometres between home and work, people get 30 cents per km, any km after that gives you 38 cents.

It kind of works in the sense that the money you spend to get to work is more or less evened out. It is also paid regardless of your means of transport, so cheaper means (such as bicycles or trams) are incentivised by potentially making you some money in return. However, this is still far from an hourly wage... We're talking about a few hundred euros, maybe a few thousand per year if you have a long commute.

If you used the median time and would force employers to pay a wage I really don't get how you would either prevent people to move further away (if you have worker protection laws) or people being fired for living too far away (if you live in the USA). This would also make it far more profitable for higher incomes to commute, which seems kind of counter-intuitive as they are probably the ones who need it the least and who would be able to just move to a new home if they wanted to.

[–] qtj@feddit.de 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

But you don't get paid the "Pendlerpauschale". You can only deduct it from your taxes.

[–] Opafi@feddit.de 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Let's just hope that if you travel eighty kilometres to work you'll earn enough for this distinction to no longer be relevant?

[–] qtj@feddit.de 1 points 11 months ago

That would mean paying a marginal tax rate of 100%. The maximum marginal tax in germany is 45%, if you make more than €277000 per year.

[–] CrayonRosary@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (3 children)

If you pay everyone the same "travel allowance" then that's just part of everyone's total compensation and compensation will be reduced somewhere else. There's no magic money fountain at a business. An employee's compensation is an employee's compensation. Simply declaring that "this portion of your pay is a travel allowance" is absolutely meaningless.

A company is not going to pay everyone more money just to help those who live far away who "need it".

[–] SuckMyWang@lemmy.world 10 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Well there sometimes is a magic money fountain. Like when the minimum wage goes up the money fountain just pays people more money that apparently wasn’t there before. Or when people ask for a raise and their boss tells them no so they leave and have to pay a new hire 140% of the original employee. The trick is to make the money fountain think you’re not going to work anymore because it’s only on a trickle. As soon as you stop working it remembers where all the money is. Magic

[–] ilinamorato@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago

Economists like to pretend that currency is entirely rational, real, finite, and concrete, but it's really not. That fiction only holds together as long as the bulk of people are willing to believe it.

Besides, these laws would never be two lines long like are written here. They would have addenda and provisions and such, preventing businesses from discriminating against employees based upon commute length, giving an upper limit, preventing a decrease in compensation to accommodate the commute benefit, and so forth.

And in the end would it turn out to be less than worthwhile? Maybe. But current remuneration in Western culture emphatically isn't working. We need either one big change or lots of little changes, and this would fall in the latter category.

[–] uis@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago

There's no magic money fountain at a business

[–] noerdman@feddit.de 24 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

What kind of stupid question is that? Just walk two hours instead of cycling twenty minutes! Duh!

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] GBU_28@lemm.ee 7 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (5 children)

Why mention cycling?

In that case it would be "drive one hour or cycle 4"

Do you mean to suggest the company should hire folks who live closer, period? That is more logical

The operative task is minimize commute.

In most cases a car would be the fastest commute, even if you live close. (Assuming a non hyper dense urban environment)

[–] Hawk@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

In my country, cycling is incentivized. I get paid for cycling to work.

Besides that, commute time isn't that much different by bike than by car in my case.

[–] GBU_28@lemm.ee 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

All well and fine, but they compared apples to oranges, by moving variables

[–] 13esq@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I was comparing two different, but very reasonable scenarios where two employees pay would be hugely different for a very silly reason. It's not apples and oranges.

[–] GBU_28@lemm.ee 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

An actual comparison was simple.

"Imagine one employee lives an hour away, and one lives 20 minutes away"

[–] 13esq@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

You're arguing about semantics, it doesn't change the point that I was trying to make.

[–] PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 2 points 11 months ago

That or go remote if there's no productive reason why they need to be in the office and then just don't have to pay for a non-existent commute

It's actually kinda genius from the perspective of getting unneeded commuters off the road, because like hell are those middle managers willing to pay commute time just to be able to more effectively ride your shoulder at the office

[–] uis@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago

In that case it would be "drive one hour or cycle 4"

For me it is:

  1. Relax and post on lemmy in PT for 47-50 minutes
  2. Drive for 45-90 minutes
  3. Cycle for about 45 minutes
load more comments (2 replies)
[–] DrDominate@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Why not just pay the price of gas plus maintenance costs then? But I would be for the same wage for commutes because that's time that the individuals don't get back in their life.

[–] 13esq@lemmy.world -1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Why not just live near your work place and save money and time yourself instead of making it your employers problem that you have a long commute.

Don't get me wrong, I understand the appeal of getting paid more for any reason. I just don't think that it's going to go down well in a workplace where some people would be getting paid substantially more for no other reason than they've chosen a job that's far from where they live.

[–] DrDominate@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

It's not getting paid more it's the employer funding the employees' commutes.

[–] 13esq@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago

I mean, that is kind of what a paycheck is for. . .

[–] PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Or you could just go remote if you can

[–] 13esq@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I don't want to think about the person that had the option to go remote and yet still chose to commute every day instead.

[–] PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 1 points 11 months ago

Extroverts, shudders

[–] fushuan@lemm.ee 3 points 11 months ago

You would also account the gas and maintenance of the car that needs to drive that much. Also, now you are doing "overtime" every day. Thanks no thanks.

[–] Sloogs@lemmynsfw.com 27 points 11 months ago

Maybe we should just have shorter work days or 4 day work weeks so that everyone isn't just insanely burned out from the rat race.

[–] conno02@lemmy.world 14 points 11 months ago (5 children)

congratulations! companies now have motivation to hire people as close as possible to the workplace, as well as fire those who live further than everywhere else!

those optimizing fucks would run that idea into the ground, i think

[–] noerdman@feddit.de 17 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Don't you dare destroy my plan to move away from work to spend a full paid working day commuting!

[–] conno02@lemmy.world 0 points 11 months ago
[–] cerement@slrpnk.net 9 points 11 months ago (1 children)

well, other than no one can afford to live near the workplace

[–] conno02@lemmy.world 6 points 11 months ago

they'll pick the most efficient option-- to them, it's not "people HAVE to live this far away or less". it's "alright, who lives the farthest away and are potential new hires closer". basically, they'd define "near" based on where employees live and where job applicants live.

it'd result in a world where the people who can afford to live closer than their coworkers are the people with more job security. it'd be more wealth inequality

[–] funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works 8 points 11 months ago

Elon already put beds in the twitter offices

[–] Franzia@lemmy.blahaj.zone 7 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

This would be so shit, yeah.

In a later comment you imagine housing near the workplace to be an expensive way to boost your resume.

I imagine us one step closer to company towns. Housing thats owned and operated by an LLC connected to your workplace and housing issues and workplace issues become one and the same.

[–] WaxedWookie@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago

I don't see the issue - company towns worked out great, right?

...right?

...oh no...

...oh no no ^no ^^no ^^^no ^^^^no ^^^^^no ^^^^^^no

[–] noerdman@feddit.de 5 points 11 months ago

Can I still clock out to play into the breach or do I then actually have to work on my commute?

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Deadeyegai@lemmy.world 74 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Boss makes a dollar, I make a dime. That's why I poop on company time.

[–] noerdman@feddit.de 29 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Boss makes a grand, I make a dollar. I eat more fibre so breaks get even longer.

[–] GBU_28@lemm.ee 13 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

Uhh fiber makes shits super fast and super clean

[–] Perroboc@lemmy.world 9 points 11 months ago

Yeah but the boss doesn’t need to know that

[–] noerdman@feddit.de 5 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)
[–] AtariDump@lemmy.world 24 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

The boss makes a dollar,
I make a dime
That was a poem
From a simpler time.

Now my boss makes a grand
While I make a cent
And he's got employees
That can't make the rent

When the CEO makes a million
And we don't make jack
That's when we riot
To take it all back

Now Mr investor
If this seems extreme
I have to remind you
It sure beats the guillotine

[–] Fredselfish@lemmy.world 44 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Don't give companies ideas ( written from the bathroom at work)

[–] noerdman@feddit.de 6 points 11 months ago (1 children)

(I like how you're on Lemmy during that time (and how that gives you plausible deniability if somebody asks if your bathroom breaks need to be 30 minutes because you're on reddit))

[–] Fredselfish@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago

Boss makes a dollar I make a dime why I poop on company time.

[–] alphapuggle@programming.dev 12 points 11 months ago (1 children)

If I can clock in on the shitter that's where I'd clock in every morning

[–] noerdman@feddit.de 22 points 11 months ago

"Nate, we need to talk about your login locations."

"What's wrong with me logging in on the China? Why is there a clock if it shouldn't be used?"

"Nothing wrong with that, pal. But could you tell us why it's the gents' room on Mondays, the ladies' one on Tuesdays, the disabled's one on Wednesdays, the shitter in my private apartment on Thursdays and seemingly King Charles' private golden toilet in his fox hunting hut near Essex on Fridays?"

load more comments
view more: next ›