What do you mean fears are growing??
He's openly and repeatedly said he's going to be a dictator. Literally his plan right from day one.
If anything, fears are growing that America will just lay down and accept this.
this post was submitted on 14 Jan 2024
322 points (95.5% liked)
politics
18883 readers
3613 users here now
Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!
Rules:
- Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
- Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
- Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
- No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive.
- Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
- No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
That's all the rules!
Civic Links
• Congressional Awards Program
• Library of Congress Legislative Resources
• U.S. House of Representatives
Partnered Communities:
• News
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
In the end, we American Exceptionalism'd our way into collapse, disrepute, poverty, strife and very possibly the end of everything we thought made America Exceptional.
Fitting, ironic, horrifying.
The right is busy being very dumb, angry and violent.
The elder liberals are barely now realizing how badly they fucked up, but are unable to conceive of anything that could possibly effectively change this course, because of reasons that boil down to things that make them slightly uncomfortable or may mean they will have to live slightly less wealthy lives.
The younger liberals and leftists are so poor and broke so often that when they do have some money, they drown their depression and neuroses in escapist media and fandom contests, and when they get tired of that or cant afford it, they bicker amongst themselves in ways that are ultimately also barely ever productive at making things better.
Though some meaningful progress has occured on some fronts, it is nearly certainly nowhere near enough to dam the coming tidal wave of a massive economic downturn for the masses, driven by corporate greed, decaying infrastructure, and the inescapable ramifications of climate change.
The few corporate chosen ones will, like Patrick Bateman, become masters of rhetoric amd feigning genuine care while actively becoming wealthy off of making everyone else more poor, and due to their inherently hyper competitive lifestyles they will become better amd better at this as the weaker, less adept ones fall off.
Shits gonna get real wild when living conditions collapse even further and oppression kicks into a higher gear.
Fascist things Trump used the military for during his first term:
- Assassination of an Iranian General
- Clearing out protestors for a photo op while holding the Bible upside down (Christians missing the antichrist parallels)
- Sending thugs in vans to abduct protestors
- Science denial at the height of the pandemic and during hurricanes
- Refusal to condemn stochastic terrorists (there are good people on both sides folks)
- Firing or attacking anyone who dissents with his ill informed opinions
I'm sure I'm missing many other points as this list van just keep going.
Those thugs in vans were prison riot police, since the regular police just had sactions placed on them and the military had to follow the uniform code of military justice. The prison riot police have exceptions from some of the laws.
Also why DeSantis was looking at forming a State milita, because the national guard has to follow federal laws.
Plan 3 was just hold up all military promotions and fill them with people willing to ignore the law - which also failed. Got to stay vigilant, all it takes is one success.
100% any successes for them equal a loss for the rest of us.
Remember that time Federal marshals shot a man to death in broad daylight and nothing came of it? Fun times.
Wasn't the guy a nutty Trump supporter threatening people? I'm also pretty sure the guy was armed and got way more time than any black dude would have.
If I'm recalling the right instance that is.
This is the one i'm referring to.
(Though don't trust the details there, the whole story fell apart as soon as scrutiny was applied. The NYT (i think, it's paywalled) did a follow up where they basically determined federal marshals just rolled up on the dude in the middle of the street and shot him in cold blood.)
Thanks for the follow up.
Okay yeah i remember this one, honestly I'm not surprised this one played out how it did, Reinoehl was a highly aggressive dude, especially towards cops, he'd been suspected of murder, and then you have the Orange asshole in the white house saying dumb shit and as usual, throwing gasoline on the already inflammable situation.
WTF??
Fears??
HE LITERALLY STATED HE WILL DO EXACTLY THAT, MULTIPLE TIMES!
But this is a news article. They need to recycle the things they rile people up the most.
I want to say "Well, the military won't comply with those commands" and maybe they wouldn't, but if we even get into that position we're in deep trouble.
Would it happen to have anything to do with the fact that he said he would?
Fears Grow That Donald Trump Is Not Lying This Time
Will the military go along with it though? Remember, Republicans held up a ton of promotions and Democrats pushed them through. I don't think the officers are going to forget who stopped them from getting a pay raise.
I dunno.. you can count on Americans doing the right thing after exhausting every other option. But the way I hear my buddies talk.. I can't make sense of it. All blue collar, all scraping by, some require benefits for family support.. and All the fault of the Democrats... It's so unhinged... And I tell then each time they whine.
I think that's true in general, but some of them get burned and learn their lesson. Trump went to the Carrier factory and promised the factories wouldn't go to Mexico and then a few months later, Carrier laid everybody off and moved down to Mexico. Not all of them lost their Trump mania after that, but a lot did.
I would be more comfortable if the US actually had law that said US military officers weren't obligated to follow orders they know to be illegal. Germany has that post WW2, but technically in the US you can be punished, maybe even imprisoned, for not following a dictator's orders.
That's not true at all. Following an unlawful order is illegal and not a valid excuse.
The officer oath is to support the and defend the constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic.
Article 92 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice (aka disobeying a direct order) spells out that it only applies to lawful orders.
Anything illegal is non binding, and stating you're following an order is not an excuse. That's literally one of the rules of the Geneva convention.
All that to say, not at all true. What I really would expect if Trump tried pulling this off with the military is a huge amount of resistance and pushback and no one in command really following the illegal orders.
There might be some schism group of crazies who try and jump the chain of command because they're MAGA crazies in the military, but it's definitely a small minority.
The US Military is a volunteer force, the officer corps has been taught and studied the history of these type of bad orders and crazy situations extensively. The NCO corps and rest of the enlisted are not ignorant bumpkins who are ignorant of their jobs and their duty to the constitution.
I don't think it really "isn't true at all". While I agree with you, by and large the US military are very competent and truly patriotic, you yourself mention a "schism group of crazies" who would circumvent things. I don't think it's likely they would take over comprehensively, but I worry that the possibility of some critical mass succeeding is there.
I think the US is far more likely to wrangle around what a "lawful order" is than many other countries.
My experience is only anecdotal, but while I served in the USAF, I saw and expected officers and enlisted personnel to uphold integrity first and excellence in all we do. I did not meet anyone who didn't take their oath seriously or those who would put politics before country. Also the political spectrum I met while enlisted was very broad and I personally doubt the caliber of men and women truly needed to overthrow the government would be on board with the plan due to how seriously we take our oath.
Their oath is to Commander-in-Chief. What are they going to do with placed Pentagon lawyers declaring lawful orders like Gitmo torture.
Pretty sure the Manual for Courts-Martial specifically says only lawful orders need to be followed
That's cool, and yeah I would expect the military court to take those things into consideration. However, Trump has already shown a propensity to stacking courts, so that's not necessarily something I would cling my hopes to.
Yeah, because he said he would.
Military swear an oath to protect against "enemies, foreign and domestic".
Trump is a domestic enemy.
Donald Trump Hates The US Military - Long List Of Links
^copied from that other site for preservation sake. There's been a good chunk of time since that list was posted and now, so I'm sure there's plenty of material to add to it, so please comment if you have a link to add.
But yeah, I was active duty when Trump was voted in, and him trying to run the military like a dictator was a concern on day one. Once my contract was up, this was a huge factor in my "FUCK NO!" when considering reenlistment.
His good buddy was talking to a cop about murdering Democrats.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
WASHINGTON — Donald Trump is sparking fears among those who understand the inner workings of the Pentagon that he would convert the nonpartisan U.S. military into the muscular arm of his political agenda as he makes comments about dictatorship and devalues the checks and balances that underpin the nation’s two-century-old democracy.
Trump has raised fresh questions about his intentions if he regains power by putting forward a legal theory that a president would be free to do nearly anything with impunity — including assassinate political rivals — so long as Congress can’t muster the votes to impeach him and throw him out of office.
Now, bracing for Trump’s potential return, a loose-knit network of public interest groups and lawmakers is quietly devising plans to try to foil any efforts to expand presidential power, which could include pressuring the military to cater to his political needs.
In its final written report, the committee wrote that “some at the [Defense] Department had genuine concerns, counseling caution, that President Trump might give an illegal order to use the military in support of his efforts to overturn the election.”
Unhappy that many NATO countries weren’t ponying up enough for defense, Trump had considered dropping out of the post-World War II alliance, his former national security adviser John Bolton wrote in his book, “The Room Where It Happened.”
Sending troops into American streets is often a bad idea, military experts say, pointing to the sort of tragedy that unfolded at Kent State University in 1970 when National Guardsmen shot and killed four students protesting the Vietnam War.
The original article contains 2,923 words, the summary contains 262 words. Saved 91%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!