this post was submitted on 15 Jan 2024
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askchapo

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Inspired by recent discussions, I think Hexbear has a lot of good information about socialism but I wonder if the relentless defense of AES on Hexbear means shooting ourselves in the foot, since many potential leftists have been thoroughly primed to react negatively to AES states?

We’re not getting our messages out when progressive instances have already pre-emptively blocked us and calling us “tankies”.

People are being turned away without even taking the opportunity to read some of the stuff here, because they already have a pre-conceived notion about Hexbear being filled with “crazy tankies who defend totalitarianism”.

I know there have been a lot of propaganda and fabrication being perpetuated about socialist countries, and it feels “right” to defend them against these false accusations, but I wonder if this is doing more harm than good for the present day nascent socialist movement, at least in the Western countries?

We can remain on the current course and feel indignant about the tankie accusations, but will forever remain as a niche “tankie” community.

Or, we can open ourselves up, by toning down the admiration for the socialist states so we are not being treated as hostile by the other instances, and thus opening up the opportunities to have productive interactions with users (and potential leftists) from other instances?

(I do have my own position, you probably know which one it is, but I’m willing to hear from others and reevaluate my own opinions if needed).

EDIT: Thanks to everyone who responded. All points are well taken. Thank you.

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[–] meth_dragon@hexbear.net 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

isn't this just tailism vs vanguardism

obv mass line is somewhere in between but this is a mostly inconsequential internet forum, idk if it matters what stance hexbear takes on AES

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[–] Kaplya@hexbear.net 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (19 children)

OK I think I should elaborate on my own thoughts since I am asking others to do so.

I think this site is one of the rare instances on the internet where you can discuss openly about AES without immediately being overwhelmed by obnoxious anti-communist propaganda, so there is a good reason for Hexbear to stay the way it is.

At the same time, it is also limiting our interactions with others who may be more averse to think positively about AES. Unfortunately I think the two paths are mutually exclusive, you can’t tread both paths together, so it has to be one way or the other.

[–] zed_proclaimer@hexbear.net 6 points 1 year ago

You do realize a lot of the people we need to appeal to aren't westerners right? Not everyone on this site is from the US or UK or western Europe or another anglo-nation, although that is the predominate userbase most likely as it's an english site primarily. Just as prospective baby libs might get spooked off by defense of AES and defense even of non-socialist "dictatorships" such as Libya, Syria, Russia, Iran, Yemen keep in mind that prospective hexbears from 2nd and 3rd world countries might get spooked off by inadequate international solidarity, social-chauvinism and insufficient anti-imperialism generally from westerners here. Your "filter" cuts both ways, and I'd rather have one group here than the other

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[–] oscardejarjayes@hexbear.net 10 points 1 year ago

In terms of AES countries, it's fine, whatever. I do sometimes wish our critical support of some groups where a little more critical though.

[–] blakeus12@hexbear.net 8 points 1 year ago

you're in the right mindset, but unfortunately there's really no way to do this without just eliminating AES from our discussions, which would help libs on to our side, but wouldn't really make libs support AES either. this would be a good idea in like, an introduction to socialism type thing, but that's not really hexbear

[–] CannotSleep420@lemmygrad.ml 8 points 1 year ago
[–] ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net 5 points 1 year ago
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