this post was submitted on 02 Feb 2024
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[–] rowrowrowyourboat@sh.itjust.works 90 points 9 months ago (10 children)

Yes, let's fight prejudice by stereotyping a whole race, gender, and sexual orientation...

[–] Anticorp@lemmy.world 58 points 9 months ago (3 children)

It's concerning how much support these types of statements get.

"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that."

--Dr. Martin Luther King Junior

[–] GeneralVincent@lemmy.world 16 points 9 months ago

"Whites, it must frankly be said, are not putting in a similar mass effort to re-educate themselves out of their racial ignorance. It is an aspect of their sense of superiority that the white people of America believe they have so little to learn."

“The problems of racial injustice and economic injustice cannot be solved without a radical redistribution of political and economic power.”

“First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Councilor or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action”.”

--Dr. Martin Luther King Junior

[–] Jtotheb@lemmy.world 8 points 9 months ago (2 children)

MLK Jr., famous for talking about how much he loves white moderates right

[–] nomous@lemmy.world 12 points 9 months ago (1 children)

MLK Jr, the guy that has that one quote about white moderates that gets paraded around constantly while 90% of his other words are completely ignored.

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[–] banneryear1868@lemmy.world 5 points 9 months ago

He never stereotyped whites as a distinct singular identity that I can recall, it was always about their relation to maintaining inequality. One of his most impactful actions was convincing white and black unions to strike together, and that the fight for jobs and equality was one poor whites and blacks needed to share. In "The Other America" he constantly references poor white populations who share in the struggle.

MLK Jr never divided people by race like this, he thought that was one of the Three Evils plaguing American society.

[–] exocrinous@lemm.ee 6 points 9 months ago

“Whites, it must frankly be said, are not putting in a similar mass effort to reeducate themselves out of their racial ignorance. It is an aspect of their sense of superiority that the white people of America believe they have so little to learn."

- Dr. Martin Luther King Junior

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[–] anytimesoon@lemmy.ml 88 points 9 months ago (14 children)

The point should be to bring everyone up, not pull others down, though

[–] galoisghost@aussie.zone 61 points 9 months ago

There aren’t a limited amount of rights that can only be handed out to be shared amongst people.

There are just rights and everyone should be entitled to them.

[–] tacosanonymous@lemm.ee 34 points 9 months ago (6 children)

That’s impossible since the point was a superficial elevation of their own interests.

Unless you think the point of feminism (for example) is to make men second class citizens. That’s just not a thing. It’s a rhetoric created by assholes to get ignorant people on board with their continued grossness.

[–] H4rdStyl3z@lemmy.ml 17 points 9 months ago (3 children)

Unless you think the point of feminism (for example) is to make men second class citizens. That’s just not a thing. It’s a rhetoric created by assholes to get ignorant people on board with their continued grossness.

I think there may be some radicals who genuinely wish for that, but those don't represent the entire movement and usually only pay lip service to the cause where it aligns with their personal beliefs. They should be ignored.

[–] grue@lemmy.world 12 points 9 months ago

I think there may be some radicals who genuinely wish for that

Those aren't radicals; those are reactionary trolls who falsely claim allegiance to the movement in order to discredit it.

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[–] Rooskie91@discuss.online 14 points 9 months ago

There's also a psychological phenomenon that occurs in 'elite classes' where they think that someone getting more means they get less. They literally cannot fathom someone getting welfare without it affecting them negatively. It's one of the reasons why poor people still support Republicans.

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[–] Grayox@lemmy.ml 20 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

No shit, the only thing leftists want to pull down are systems of exploitation.

[–] Armand1@lemmy.world 12 points 9 months ago

Meanwhile, the Right want to pull down your trousers to check your "gender".

[–] pingveno@lemmy.ml 5 points 9 months ago

At the same time, privileged people will still sometimes feel a loss of something when you're portioning out a finite resource. So if a particular group is 25% of the population and they were getting 75% of the pie before and now they're getting 25% of the pie, that's a loss. It's a justified loss, but it's still a loss.

That said, there are other things like rights that are not finite in any meaningful sense of the word. When someone is feeling a loss because an oppressed group gained rights, it's usually because they're an oppressive asshole.

[–] RaoulDook@lemmy.world 7 points 9 months ago (1 children)

"White people be like" memes, so progressive

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[–] Kachilde@lemmy.world 6 points 9 months ago

That IS the point, and rarely do equality or equity initiatives “pull down” anyone.

But the Haves feel like they’ve earned their position, and that means that if you help a Have Not in any way, you are taking away from their achievement (which in this case is “not being born poor/black/female”)

[–] Signtist@lemm.ee 5 points 9 months ago (1 children)

The issue is that people generally view their situation not by how much they have, but how much more they have than others. It's like a race to these people - who's winning isn't based on how close to the goal they are, it's based on how far ahead of the competitors they are. People who have everything they need often see others getting to that same point as competitors catching up, and, seeing that they are not advancing themselves, they feel that they need to prevent that in order to maintain their lead. It's meant to be everyone working together, but few see it that way, especially among the current "winners."

[–] grue@lemmy.world 11 points 9 months ago (1 children)

The issue is that people generally view their situation not by how much they have, but how much more they have than others.

Some people are that way, but not "people generally."

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I'll tell you what's at the bottom of it. If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you.

-Lyndon B. Johnson, 36th President of the United States

[–] bartolomeo@suppo.fi 33 points 9 months ago (2 children)

It's funny because extending rights to marginalized people does not by any means diminish the rights of the privileged.

[–] dangblingus@lemmy.dbzer0.com 16 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Turns out, the cruelty of knowing you have more rights than others was part of the fun the whole time.

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[–] MxM111@kbin.social 27 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (3 children)

There is equity, and there is equality, and those are different things. I do think that forceful push to maintain percentages in various aspects of life to correspond to percentages of population often is actually unjust. For example, to insist that it should be strictly 50/50 percentage (or whatever it is) between men and women in all professions e.g. police, school teachers, etc. and actually stop hiring a particular gender until this 50/50 distribution is established is not good.

[–] grue@lemmy.world 39 points 9 months ago (3 children)
[–] MxM111@kbin.social 12 points 9 months ago (1 children)

The problem with this graphics is that this is absolutely not what equity proponents are doing. What is shown here is individual approach. What equity supporters want to do is to group you according by things like skin color or gender, and provide support according that grouping.

For example, equality in income distribution is when help is given based on income of the individual. Equity is when help is given based on skin color to make average income of all skin colors the same.

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[–] Rustmilian@lemmy.world 7 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (12 children)

2jmnh4usyhs31

The little guy should be hurt in the 3rd panel as well for the sake of accuracy.
I find that equity tends to create the illusion of opportunity rather than providing the actual support needed to allow the disadvantaged parties to properly take advantage of the opportunities, thus backfiring and hurting all parties.
For example, giving college spots to those who are unable to pass the entry bar rather than giving them the actual support they need to pass the bar in the first place, which ends up with the disadvantaged parties falling behind and taking opportunities away from those who did pass the bar. In the end, nothing gets solved.
See Students for Fair Admissions v. Harvard.

Justice is clearly the better option.

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[–] HexesofVexes@lemmy.world 26 points 9 months ago (2 children)

I think a lot of equity arguments bug me because they often fail to address the real issue (at least in the workplace). It's a matter of attitude, rather than parity/proportionality.

However much we hate it, the majority of people in a stem field will still seek a straight white man out when we look for authority/expertise. That isn't because they are the greatest expert, or that they hold the highest accessible authority, but because it is an ingrained belief. That's just wrong, on so very many levels, that I cannot even begin to express how stupid it is.

Some people have spotted this issue, but their solution is abhorrent - denigrate this group. Raise a generation that looks on this group with contempt, to at least remove the component of authority. It will solve the problem, but it will create a lot more down the line as it becomes the accepted solution. Shall we have a generational genetic lottery forever?

Oddly enough, I think the "blurring of gender lines" brought about by the trans movement might offer a more meaningful solution to some part of this problem, as it erases the categories themselves, rather than attempting to shift their position.

[–] FraidyBear@lemmy.world 7 points 9 months ago

Imo blurring genderlines and rendering them useless as a meaningful measure of power is precisely why so many in power now don't want the gender/trans movement to gain any traction. If people were to realize that gender truly was nothing more than your outward appearance and did not in any way impact someone's ability to gain power, knowledge, or success then we could end up with a WOMAN in powerful positions or even worse the women could actually start to gain allies with the power to change things when former white cishet male presenting people who still speak with their white cishet friends about all the I justices women face start to get outraged on their friends behalf.

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[–] KingThrillgore@lemmy.ml 22 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Yes Stormy, we're gonna hunt you for sport. You and the rest of the Pod 6 jerks.

[–] badaboomxx@lemmy.world 7 points 9 months ago

I loved that show.

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[–] Jax@sh.itjust.works 13 points 9 months ago

I knew Lemmy was a good place, and then the sealab memes came.

Now it's better.

[–] kellyaster@kbin.social 13 points 9 months ago (5 children)

Related JAQing off opinion piece in The Guardian posted today: "Where are all the films about ‘whiteness’?" .

For those unfamiliar with the acronym, JAQ = "Just asking questions," a bad faith tactic pushing an absurd narrative (e.g. "movies for white people are disappearing") by pretending to ask innocent questions.

Direct quote, emphasis mine:

That’s why the final step towards true racial equality on screen is for whiteness to be cinematically named, described and dethroned from its “just human” position of cultural power. It’s time for white people to develop a cinema culture all of their own.

It's riddled with white power talking points like this. This shit is really fucked up. It is irresponsible for a well-known major news source to publish shit like this, even with the "opinion" label attached. It's basically right wing extremist (aka Nazi) recruitment propaganda.

[–] ultranaut@lemmy.world 10 points 9 months ago (2 children)

I didn't read the whole thing but I made it to your quote and I think their point is intended to be anti-racist. They are saying films have a sort of universal human experience or perspective or whatever you want to call it that's been "white" by default but shouldn't be.

[–] SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca 10 points 9 months ago

This is also how I read it. I actually really appreciate attacking the idea of "white as default". It's kind of like how some gamers think representing anything besides the "default" demographic is "political".

I think this is the more revealing excerpt:

This is the defining irony of white film-making. The more oblivious your film is to matters of race, the whiter it plays. Because whiteness is often exactly that: the freedom not to see race, even when it’s right there in front of you.

Basically, being aware of whiteness makes for less racist movies. There's nothing wrong with white movies, but it's wrong when white movies pretend they're not white, but universal and default. The article concludes:

Instead, our twofold expectation should be this: 1) The industry affords more film-makers of colour the same creative freedoms and commercial opportunities that are now afforded white film-makers, and 2) That the film culture – including the film-makers themselves – develop the confidence, insight and language to discuss and dethrone white cinema.

This does not sound like racist dog-whistling or white supremacy to me.

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[–] wick@lemm.ee 10 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Seeeaaalaaab underneath the water

God damn that theme song is a banger

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[–] gardylou@lemmy.world 9 points 9 months ago

♪If you're looking for me, You better check under the sea, 'cause that is where you'll find me, Underneath the sea, lab, Underneath the water, Sealab, at the bottom of the sea.♪

[–] Cagi@lemmy.ca 7 points 9 months ago (4 children)

There can be only none, Debbie!

[–] SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 8 points 9 months ago

Marduk desires not the barren wasteland of your desiccated viscera.

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[–] Toneswirly@lemmy.world 6 points 9 months ago

Equal rights are a threat to hegemony. Losing hegemony is scary for the privileged, as it is status quo.

[–] SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I know Ellis Henican has a whole ass career that isn't voice acting, but it kills me we only ever got him as Stormy Waters and nothing else. He's got such a great voice!

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[–] t0fr@lemmy.ca 5 points 9 months ago (1 children)

It took me a second to understand "cishet" I'm not used to seeing both terms smudged together and shortened line that

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