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submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by bh11235@infosec.pub to c/gaming@beehaw.org

Your favorite game's "awesome story" merely goes through the motions when portraying conflict

The protagonist mulls over destroying the food supply of an entire town to gain some strategic advantage. The team pipes in: "Are we really doing this?", Alice asks; "I guess there is no other way," Bob sighs, and that's that. Once the deed is done the town mayor's elite guard chases the team and shouts: "You will pay for this!". The chase sequence is over. Total casualties: twenty people, and seventy thousand more in a month or so. The incident is brought up exactly once later in the game, where Alice notes that "we maybe overdid it blowing up that food supply". The game is full of this kind of stuff, and is hailed as "exciting" and "eventful".

Your favorite game's "awesome story" is carried by an episodic plot

This is a flaw so old and so pervasive that Aristotle complained about it: just one thing after the other. Oh no, we've got to hit the road! Oh no, the chariot broke. Need to get spare parts. Oh no, the nearby village is full of killer robots... Oh no, the killer robot repellent stocks are in the next village over... Oh no, the people of the next village over are starving and hostile... Oh no, all the emergency food rations have been claimed by bandits, and the bandit leader refuses to negotiate on account of the roadblock to the southeast, etc, etc, etc...

Now of course this is less of a problem if the audience is at least forced to concede "wow, that was some experience dealing with the chariot breakage", "wow, that was some experience getting the spare parts", "wow, that was some experience dealing with the killer robots". But in practice stories are often built this way in a futile effort to achieve a magic gestalt effect where a sequence of forgettable episodes is somehow more than the sum of its parts.

Your favorite game's "awesome story" is one of those pieces of 'environmental storytelling'

Imagine a person who claims that in terms of pure gameplay mechanics, walking simulators are generally superior to soulslikes. They explain that it's exactly the fact that walking simulators do not involve strategic decision making, hair-trigger reaction times, or skill with controller input, that makes them typically such a master class in mechanical design. Because you see, these things are all crutches, and the superior philosophy is for the game mechanics to engage with the player without relying on these crutches, as the typical walking simulator does.

This is what it sounds like to me when someone extols the virtues of the "amazing story" in a game where none of the characters have friends, families, conversations, goals, fears, or first names. At that point you're way past "less is more", you're practicing narrative homeopathy. I'll grant maybe the game is a compelling piece of art, and that's something different.

Your favorite game's "awesome story" robs the player of a basic sense of agency

It is generally not awesome for the player character to join a cult, agree to assassinate their boss's boss, cheat on their life partner, pick a side in a major power struggle, voluntarily inject themselves with an experimental nano-fluid, etc, without the player's consent.

Your favorite game's "awesome story" is a 5-hour affair fit into 50 hours

Half a book page's worth of plot. 4 sidequests, 10 errands, 80 points of interest, 3 broken bridges, 2 days of real time. Half a book page's worth of plot. Repeat.

Your favorite game's "awesome story" falls apart the moment you try to put yourself in any character's shoes and consider their supposed motives and means

There isn't a dull moment: backup plans are revealed, friendships are made and ruined, alliances are brokered and broken, bold gambits are attempted and thwarted. But wait, didn't Alice swear to destroy her father's company? So why did she agree to call in a favor with that elite mercenary unit last mission, when we decided to run a crucial errand that helped stabilize the same company? And where were these mercenaries back in mission 1 the moment things went south and we were surrounded by 30 armed bad guys? Also, isn't this the third time already that Eve's changed her allegiance? At this point the Nutella conspiracy that she is orchestrating goes, what, four levels deep, and she has been able to act perfectly and maintain the deception for each level so far until revealing the next?... "We will bypass the front security using this special security-bypasser that I have assembled for this mission", says Qarxas the alien; this useful contraption has never been brought up before, and will never be brought up again. See also: mind control, parallel universes, get-out-of-death-free cards and time travel. Of this, H. G. Wells famously said: "If anything is possible, nothing is interesting".

Your favorite game's "awesome story" at its core has, let's be tactful and say a pathological fixation on things as opposed to people

The story's central conflict is fundamentally and entirely about the nuke and the facility and the energy field and the virus and the organization and the protocol etc etc. The people are set pieces; at best they get to momentarily be people while caught up in all the above, at worst not even that.

For some reason sequels are extra eager to walk into this trap, thinking the energy field and the virus are what made the original so compelling, so this time let's have the story revolve around 3 energy fields and 8 viruses. Actually what made the original so compelling was the distraught scientist who worked herself half to death on a vaccine and got all the players to root for her because hey this is just like that time they pulled 3 all nighters in a row on that project. Unfortunately the sequel kills her two minutes into the intro, so as to establish that virus #6 is not fucking around and everyone is in really serious danger this time.

Your favorite game's "awesome story" is just a bunch of jerks speaking in riddles over and over

Come, friend; it's time that all questions be finally answered, and all mice go back to their holes, and the mighty be brought low. Or were we ever friends at all? Are you going to surrender to these doubts or push through, like a mother pushes through when she gives the gift of life? Can we break free of the past? Can we forge a future? Have you stopped to consider whether we should? What price are you willing to pay to make that happen? Can you tell the difference between good and evil? Truth and fabrication? Competent prose and whatever the hell this is?

Edit: Christ almighty where's the "disable inbox replies" button on this thing

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[-] orbital_malice42@lemmy.zip 5 points 1 year ago

I'd say this is the result of someone asking ChatGPT for "rage bait post for a video game forum" but it has too much insufferable personality to be AI generated

[-] AfterAll@beehaw.org 4 points 1 year ago

why i hate your beehaw post: it's carried by episodic discussion points

[-] Vestria@beehaw.org 4 points 1 year ago

This reads like dialogue written for the "pretentious writer" friend character trope who is always shitting on other peoples' work but hasn't ever had any success with his own in every B-list Hollywood meta comedy: smug, confident, completely wrong, and utterly without purpose or substance.

[-] Plus_a_Grain_of_Salt@beehaw.org 1 points 1 year ago

Yes, there was an odd vibe here I couldn't pin down, I think you found it.

[-] Gravelsack@lemmy.one 3 points 1 year ago

People who don't like anything are incredibly boring, in my humble opinion. Imagine putting all of this effort into an essay about why other people shouldn't like the things that they like. I think a lot of people mistake being a contrarion for being an intellectual.

[-] shapesandstuff@feddit.de 3 points 1 year ago

I feel like it would've made sense to include some real examples. Otherwise this just reads very.. made up? :'D

Not sure how to explain, but the simplistic nature of the stories you use as examples make the whole text feel a bit like an angry strawman argument even though it probably makes some good points.

[-] keeyes@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 1 year ago

yeah it's kind of a weird post with the way it's all worded. framing it in a "why what you like is wrong" way probably hurts it more than anything. it doesn't invite discussion and is more or less just a ranting if you're not giving examples.

it's not like anyone here is trying to force someone to like the same games they do and the first thought I had after reading was "okay..."

Personally I like all sorts of storytelling as long as it's involving topics/genres I'm interested. Lovecraftian setting? inject it into my veins. stories about realistic depictions of depression and suicide - sign me up. There's not a singular formula that all my favorite games need to adhere to - why would anyone want all their story structures to be so rigid and similar?

Anyways one of my favorite games, probably my overall favorite, is Control. It does a lot of 'show, don't tell' while also having an incredible amount of world building there for you to engage with if you're interested. The setting is like they tailor-made this for my interests. So pumped for the other games coming out in that universe

[-] NuPNuA@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago

It's like a TV Tropes page without the examples.

[-] iusearchbtw@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 1 year ago

I agree that video game narratives are, on average, way worse than in other media, but... This post is like a script for a CinemaSins video on an entire medium. There's a conversation to be had about the quality and originality of storytelling in video games and why gamers are so quick to praise mediocre narratives, but I dunno if glib one-paragraph summaries of "types" of video game stories (with no examples!) do much to advance that conversation.

[-] Kirbysonicboom@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago

There’s a conversation to be had about the quality and originality of storytelling in video games and why gamers are so quick to praise mediocre narratives,

No, there's really not. This is just a condescending way to disreguard someone else opinion on a piece of media or writing you dislike. The simple answer is just that thehly legitimately thought it was good.

I'm so tired of people acting like they're some keepers of "good" content because they have the nonsense notion that media/writing is obectively good/bad. Want to talk about a film you just really liked online? Nope, it's "objectively" bad writing, therefore you have terrible taste for liking it (or get called worse). I was hoping discussions like this would be better here.

[-] grady77@beehaw.org 2 points 11 months ago

Lol I really hope this is the biggest troll post ever.

[-] bbbhltz@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago

I would have liked some examples.

[-] koreth@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago

This post begs for a list of games whose stories avoid most or all of these traps.

I'll start with an easy one: Disco Elysium.

[-] bermuda@beehaw.org 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

your examples are so weirdly vague I think this post would get a proverbial "mega-boost" from some actual examples of video games.

And I can agree with a few of these but some of them seem so weird. Like, assuming that an episodic story automatically means each episode is self-contained with 1 major conflict is a really archaic way of thinking about episodes. In television, that all but died out in like 2002. And a fixation on things as opposed to people is actually what makes a lot of dystopic writing great. The removal of the "self," can lead to a feeling of nihilism and can lead the viewer to appreciating how much of the world has lost its life.

Also, jokes on you, you probably don't hate my favorite video game's story because it actually has no story ;)

[-] DaSaw@midwest.social 1 points 1 year ago

Sounds like a summer blockbuster to me. :p

[-] karbonkel@beehaw.org 1 points 1 year ago

Tell me your parents never read stories to you, without telling me your parents never read stories to you.

[-] NuPNuA@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago

I was thinking first year media studies at uni.

[-] lordnorthiii@fanaticus.social 1 points 1 year ago

Very entertaining post. Would love to know the titles of the games that inspired these categories, but not a bad idea to keep those to yourself.

[-] poke@beehaw.org 1 points 1 year ago

My favorite game's awesome story made me feel things, and I like it for that

[-] Matthew@programming.dev 1 points 1 year ago

I don't need complete agency and freedom to enjoy a game. I don't play games like Red Dead Redemption and The Last of Us expecting to create my own story; I play them to be immersed in a beautifully written and preformed narrative.

[-] LoamImprovement@beehaw.org 1 points 1 year ago

Sounds like somebody's never played Disco Elysium.

[-] PickTheStick@lemmy.fmhy.ml 1 points 1 year ago

#Your favorite game’s “awesome story” robs the player of a basic sense of agency

It is generally not awesome for the player character to join a cult, agree to assassinate their boss’s boss, cheat on their life partner, pick a side in a major power struggle, voluntarily inject themselves with an experimental nano-fluid, etc, without the player’s consent.

Right, so...please tell me a narrative medium that allows this. Somehow movies, books, comics, manga, and literal storytelling all get a pass on this?

I can sort of nod along with everything else, agreeing that there is some truth in the spewing. This statement is so pants-on-head foolish that every other assertion you make gets dragged beneath the water and drowns with chains made of the last page of shitty choose-your-own-adventure book. And for that level of strength in the chains to work, those assertions have to be pretty crappy.

Sorry, but no medium of media allows for agency. I don't care if you have some of the best writing in a game (whether that means Planescape: Torment, Baldur's Gate II, Disco Elysium, whatever), or if you want to go with the old choose-your-own-adventure books, but there is ultimately little to no player agency. If you want player agency in a game, you have one choice, and it isn't a video game: TTRPGs. Even ChatGPT can't match what a good GM can do, because they can allow you to break the mechanics of the game or add mechanics on the fly to fit what a player wants to do. A GM can literally respond to something a game creator never imagined within seconds. I want to see Planescape or Disco Elysium react to a player doing something they thought of that the game creator didn't imagine. Buuuulllllshit. Player agency my ass.

Also, as the OP obviously fails to mention any games that he thinks is worthy of being an 'awesome story', I'm calling this as a troll/bait post.

[-] HappyFrog@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 1 year ago
[-] vogumvogum@beehaw.org 1 points 1 year ago

I think it's long past the time that we kill dead the notion of The Player = The Player-Character

[-] lukini@beehaw.org 0 points 1 year ago

You will never convince me that going into Bioshock blind isn't one of the greatest storytelling experiences ever.

[-] middlemuddle@beehaw.org 0 points 1 year ago

I could never get into Bioshock for some reason. I started playing it twice, but just never felt super engaged or intrigued. Which seems really weird to me because I love a compelling story and that game has a reputation for being a great story. Maybe I just haven't been in the right mood and need to give it another shot.

[-] lukini@beehaw.org 0 points 1 year ago

Depending on how many hours you played, you might not have reached the point that gave it that reputation. I absolutely loved the story already, including the characters and the environment of Rapture, but there's a certain point in the story where it gets taken to a new level.

[-] middlemuddle@beehaw.org 0 points 1 year ago

I may explore it again at some point. Always good to have an old game I already own available rather than having to pay for something brand new.

[-] Butterbee@beehaw.org 0 points 1 year ago

If we are talking about the original Bioshock I can provide a competing perspective. I found the story to be extremely mid at its peak, and actually mind numbingly poor at the great moment of reveal. I literally fell asleep multiple times trying to get through the game. So if you are not vibing with it in the first 1/3 of the game I think there's a good chance you just won't.

I'm really glad that so many people loved this game. There are many different kinds of stories that work for many different kinds of people and this one works for a LOT of people. It has an amazing aesthetic. But it didn't work for me.

[-] middlemuddle@beehaw.org 2 points 11 months ago

Appreciate the perspective. Maybe it's just not for me. But I may also give it another shot at some point since I'm not inclined to spend a lot of money on games these days and that one's already in my Steam library.

[-] Butterbee@beehaw.org 1 points 11 months ago

Give it a go! Maybe you'll appreciate it more on a second round!

[-] Cr0xy@beehaw.org 0 points 1 year ago

Oh wow, kudos for sitting down and writing this piece out. Damn, that's a long post.

But seriously though, all I could think of when I "skimmed" through the text was that you got too obsessed with the building blocks of a story and realised that you are critical towards that they're all the same shape and/or made by the same material. So you stand very close to the wall and squint instead of backing up a few paces to get a good view of the actual construct in it's entirety.

Relax and just be happy that we have the luxury in this day and age to appreciate gaming as a medium. Or don't, whatever makes you happy :)

[-] Brandon3399@beehaw.org 1 points 1 year ago

I really like this point. If you look closely most churches are built with bricks and wood, but still create beautiful structures. As I was reading through the list I was thinking a lot about games that did points good and badly. Tropes are tropes for a reason (check out OSP trope talks if you want break down on how specific tropes can be used well or poorly)

this post was submitted on 06 Jul 2023
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